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Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

#31

Post by zyxley »

6stringmerc wrote: post #16
kawsper wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fly my quadcopter in the UK. It would be nice to have an app that told me about the airspace I was in based on my current position. However, right now I am not flying higher than 10 meters from the ground.

Round up a team and put it in the ApplyHN sector - that could be a really useful, pay-for-app & updates type service. Definitely has value. The target market should be able to see the cost-benefit I presume. Good thinking!

It seems like there could be something of an aspirational market there for 'prosumer' drone pilots who follow the rules because it makes them feel more like professionals. Include some resources on interesting uses of drones, maybe a little marketplace for connecting camera drone pilots with marketers or landowners...

Re: Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

#32

Post by blakeyrat »

ddispaltro wrote: post #6
Zigurd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Geofencing has a downside, too. While you might think it enhances aviation safety, it may not do so at all. Planes spend so little time within flying/control range of commonplace drones that, when you read about a "possible drone strike" always bet against it. Instead it will enable mission creep as more places get banned because embarrassing things, like protesters getting beaten, happen there.

Yeah mission creep would be the best way to describe what I'd be afraid of with geofencing.

I'm not sure I agree with geofencing, but it's also true that drone operators appear to be, by and large, acting like complete jerks and someone needs to get the message across somehow.

Re: Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

#33

Post by hirsin »

Splines wrote: post #26
HorizonXP wrote: post #2

What a level headed response by the transport minister. I love that he acknowledges that geofencing rules will easily be circumvented. That said, I still think it's a good idea to implement. It will make it easier for casuals like me to quickly be warned when I'm venturing into forbidden areas. Sure, I could ignore it or hack around it, but at least it's an easy to implement safeguard that will keep most people away.

There's a danger to this though; if drone pilots are universally expected to be warned when they fly in dangerous areas, then pilots will start flying "to the edge" and expect the technology to always keep them in line. I would be surprised if restricted areas were stable enough that drones could store a database of no-go areas and keep it up to date easily. It would be more straightforward to set clear policy and pr…

That's actually good precedent to bring up - has e.g. Google Maps or more infamously, Apple Maps, ever been held liable for bad directions? I believe it's still seen as the end user's responsibility to obey the laws, especially when the safeguards fail.

Re: Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

#34

Post by Jtsummers »

Splines wrote: post #26
HorizonXP wrote: post #2

What a level headed response by the transport minister. I love that he acknowledges that geofencing rules will easily be circumvented. That said, I still think it's a good idea to implement. It will make it easier for casuals like me to quickly be warned when I'm venturing into forbidden areas. Sure, I could ignore it or hack around it, but at least it's an easy to implement safeguard that will keep most people away.

There's a danger to this though; if drone pilots are universally expected to be warned when they fly in dangerous areas, then pilots will start flying "to the edge" and expect the technology to always keep them in line. I would be surprised if restricted areas were stable enough that drones could store a database of no-go areas and keep it up to date easily. It would be more straightforward to set clear policy and pr…

With cars we have technologies called roads and lines and signs that tell us where we can and cannot go. But sometimes, those fail us. Particularly in areas with lots of dirt roads (no lines). And especially when there are many dirt roads (potentially no signs, too many locations to put them up). That does not excuse people from driving in restricted areas. It may be cause for mitigation. But, at least around here, driving in an otherwise unmarked (signs) wilderness protection area (on the map), will still get you a ticket and a fine if you're caught. Even if you did pass into it on a dirt road you were allowed to drive on and there were no signs.

The pilot can try that line of reasoning, it is (somewhat) valid. But reviewing maps would, ideally, only be made redundant. Since we don't live in an ideal world, it'd still be their responsibility to know where they were flying.

Re: Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

#35

Post by JoeAltmaier »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #27

Slightly misleading headline. Basically they haven't confirmed it's a drone so they can't rule anything out, or as he puts it "it could have been a plastic bag or something". They don't seem to have any evidence suggesting it's a plastic bag and not a drone (and vice versa).

...or any evidence that it existed at all? That's certainly news.

Re: Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

#36

Post by Jtsummers »

hirsin wrote: post #33
Splines wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a danger to this though; if drone pilots are universally expected to be warned when they fly in dangerous areas, then pilots will start flying "to the edge" and expect the technology to always keep them in line. I would be surprised if restricted areas were stable enough that drones could store a database of no-go areas and keep it up to date easily. It would be more straightforward to set clear policy and pr…

That's actually good precedent to bring up - has e.g. Google Maps or more infamously, Apple Maps, ever been held liable for bad directions? I believe it's still seen as the end user's responsibility to obey the laws, especially when the safeguards fail.

A friend recently (several months ago) was fined because he trusted Google Maps to be accurate and drove into an otherwise unmarked (by the route he took into it) wilderness protection area. He got the minimal fine because he demonstrated that he'd tried to obey the law (showed that Google Maps marked the areas, but marked them incorrectly), but he was still fined.

Re: Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

#37

Post by oskrim »

nathancahill wrote: post #21
6stringmerc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Round up a team and put it in the ApplyHN sector - that could be a really useful, pay-for-app & updates type service. Definitely has value. The target market should be able to see the cost-benefit I presume. Good thinking!

Classic HN. Jumping from someone's annoyance to "create a startup" that "definitely has value" without knowing anything about the space.

I guess that's how most startups get started AFAIK?

Re: Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

#39

Post by gregmac »

Wow, this is an elected official?

> Transport minister Robert Goodwill admitted authorities had not yet confirmed whether what struck the Airbus A320

> Mr Goodwill also dismissed calls for tighter rules on drone use to protect against terror threats insisting current rules governing drone use were strong enough. He said it would be much easier for terrorists to attack airports on the ground with rucksacks or car bombs than orchestrate the attack from a drone aircraft.

> He warned that any moves to enforce geo-fencing rules would be vulnerable to being hacked by "somebody who could get round that software".

> "And indeed the early reports of a dent in the front of the plane were not confirmed - there was no actual damage to the plane"

> "the pilot has a lot of other things to concentrate [while landing] on so we're not quite sure what they saw so I think we should maybe not overreact too much."

This is a sane, rational response.. I am just not used to hearing it come from government officials. This should be a model for the type of responses that government officials have to these types of situations.

Re: Drone believed to have hit British Airways flight 'may have been a plastic bag'

#40

Post by nathancahill »

oskrim wrote: post #37
nathancahill wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic HN. Jumping from someone's annoyance to "create a startup" that "definitely has value" without knowing anything about the space.

I guess that's how most startups get started AFAIK?

Unfortunately yes, which is why you get founders awkwardly trying to answer questions like.. "How does your product compare to X and Y that are dominating the space right now?" when they've never heard of X or Y.
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