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Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

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Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#381

Post by ethanbond »

ommunist wrote: post #318
theptip wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the right way to frame it; or perhaps try the counterfactual: by not taking action, we are choosing to allow 0.1 Holocausts/year of deaths to occur. We wipe species off the face of the earth regularly for as little benefit as increasing the land available for soy farming in the Amazon; averting a holocaust per decade seems like a no-brainer when measured on that scale.

Prohibit cars. 1/6 of Holocaust every year will be prevented.

Because the utility of mosquitos is roughly equivalent to the utility of cars.

Duh.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#382

Post by cooper12 »

Steko wrote: post #258
waffle_ss wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chairman Mao thought killing all the sparrows in China (part of his Four Pests Campaign[1]) would be a great idea because they ate laborers' grain seed. But then the population of crop-eating insects ballooned, causing the Great Chinese Famine to get a lot worse. Tens of millions starved to death. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

Related: because there was a bounty on rats the farmers started growing rats secretly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#383

Post by azazqadir »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #357
funkyy wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be obviously an impact. Question is how big.

I don't really understand why we're arguing about this. How many species have we lost as a result of human activity? What's one more. Here's a list[1]. Fuck the mosquito. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_extinct_animals 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine

The point is we are deliberately trying to eliminate their existence and we will be directly responsible for that.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#384

Post by lmm »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #308
technotony wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve actually wondered if we should create some kind of ‘blackops’ X-prize. Crowdfund a million dollars in bitcoin and release it to someone who can prove they released a gene drive that wiped these monsters out. Obviously this would be a major violation of the democratic process, but I feel like the utilitarian ends here justify the means. Should an individual have the power to take a global decision like this? Prob…

Of course, the big problem with utilitarianism is that, in the immortal words of Gandalf, "Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

So you make the best decision you can knowing what you know at the time. The non-utilitarian alternative by definition consists of making a decision that you think is worse.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#385

Post by lmm »

nradov wrote: post #202
bduerst wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really an apples to apples comparison. All of those are invasive species, except for the screw fly, which isn't a large part of a biological ecosystem (e.g. a sizeable portion of the Myotis lucifugus diet).

In principle why should it matter whether a particular species is native or invasive? Regardless of whether a particular species spread to an area naturally or were introduced by humans we have to deal with them as they exist today. And certainly some mosquito species are invasive to the areas where they live now.

Removing a native species carries a much greater risk of causing ecosystem collapse (massively reducing biodiversity) than removing an invasive species. Biodiversity is practically valuable (e.g. drug candidates) and some people feel it's inherently valuable. (Also some people feel that preserving the natural ecosystem is inherently valuable, though I don't have that feeling myself).

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#386

Post by pbhjpbhj »

XFrequentist wrote: post #228
bduerst wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really an apples to apples comparison. All of those are invasive species, except for the screw fly, which isn't a large part of a biological ecosystem (e.g. a sizeable portion of the Myotis lucifugus diet).

Aedes mosquitoes are indeed "invasive" in much (arguably, most) of the world.

Humans are invasive in, arguably, all of the world.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#387

Post by adrianN »

dmd wrote: post #274
kls wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty much ground zero of where they want to release them down here in the FL Keys and I am all for it. The amount of chemicals they pump out in the summer months is enough to sway me towards the belief that it can not be much if any riskier. When we hear the hum of the mosquito truck we have to yell, to our kids playing outside, to get in the house and stay out of the mist. Most of the other locals are vehemen…

When my mom was little, "it was very exciting when we heard the DDT truck coming and all the kids would run out of their houses or off the beach and run behind the fogging truck...the smell was kind of sweet and running in the DDT fog was fun."

"The Winged Scourge" is an interesting piece from that time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y68F8YwLWdg

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#388

Post by grecy »

saulrh wrote: post #60

Most of the "whoops" tales are people that didn't listen to their scientists telling them not to, didn't have scientists at all, or were from long enough ago that we can discard their stories as irrelevant in the same way that we'd discard things like "spaceflight is impossible" and "nukes will end war". We've now traced the food chain around malaria mosquitoes out to three or four degrees of separation, including th…

>Most of the "whoops" tales are people that didn't listen to their scientists telling them not to, didn't have scientists at all, or were from long enough ago that we can discard their stories as irrelevant....

It fascinates and terrifies me that we humans constantly think we know what we're doing and won't mess up again, like somehow we're superior to our ancestors because we have a little more knowledge. "Oh yeah, they put lead in gasoline because they didn't know better. We know better, what we're doing now is perfect".

2050: "Oh yeah, they used to use nasty stuff in fracking compounds, but we know better now"

2060: "Oh yeah, everyone used to carry around little electromagnetic devices and put them next to their brain, but we know better now".

It's it clear that anything major we do now will be looked back on as a complete f-up, once the next generations have more knowledge.

We seem to think we know best, when in reality we have absolutely no idea what's going on. When will we learn to leave well enough alone?

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#389

Post by misnome »

digler999 wrote: post #337
nickff wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "bureaucrats are not being evil or heartless when they don't allocate funds for necessary work that falls outside of their mandate: they could go to jail for misallocation of taxpayer funds. " Which bureaucrat has gone to jail for making any decision of this sort? The BLM sold ~1700 protected wild horses to a slaughterhouse a few years ago, and I don't think anyone was even reprimanded.[1] EPA allowed 11 million li…

> ~1700 protected wild horses you mean invasive wild horses, don't you ? the ones that were brought here by western conquistadors ?

It doesn't matter where their ancestors came from, if they were categorised as protected.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#390

Post by misnome »

technotony wrote: post #237
maaku wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those eradications were paid for by the Department of Agriculture (and equivalent organizations in other regions). Who is going to pay for the mosquito? I'm not objecting. I think we should eradicate the mosquito. But as someone who has worked for the government (albeit a different branch) I know that bureaucrats are not being evil or heartless when they don't allocate funds for necessary work that falls outside of t…

I’ve actually wondered if we should create some kind of ‘blackops’ X-prize. Crowdfund a million dollars in bitcoin and release it to someone who can prove they released a gene drive that wiped these monsters out. Obviously this would be a major violation of the democratic process, but I feel like the utilitarian ends here justify the means. Should an individual have the power to take a global decision like this? Prob…

I think you are vastly understimating the cost of gene engineering.
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