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Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

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Re: Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

#11

Post by ilovecomputers »

arohner wrote: post #6
brk wrote: post #2

I've deleted the Yelp app from my iPhone. It seemed like a good idea early on, but I don't feel that I can trust the results any more, and it's not worth the trouble. It's a bummer because I travel a lot for work, so it was nice to be able to find local businesses.

Can anyone recommend an alternative?

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ http://www.dopplr.com/ http://www.zagat.com/

Still, yelp is very useful, but if you don't want to use it out of principle (for the little guys!), you can use the sites above.

Re: Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

#12

Post by evanrmurphy »

lukev wrote: post #7
brk wrote: post #2

I've deleted the Yelp app from my iPhone. It seemed like a good idea early on, but I don't feel that I can trust the results any more, and it's not worth the trouble. It's a bummer because I travel a lot for work, so it was nice to be able to find local businesses.

Even if there were some improprieties going on...If it was empirically useful, for you, why stop using it? This behavior would probably harm Yelp's business clients far more than their users. Or do you feel is was important to make a statement?

If Yelp is a sort of monopoly, then users' standards for its usefulness is a low bar, since they'll be comparing it to nothing rather than to a better alternative. (And before users have reason to suspect any foul play at Yelp - as they now do - it's more difficult for better alternatives to gain users' attention.)

Re: Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

#13

Post by bugs »

rmorrison wrote: post #8

There is definitely room in the market for a new Yelp, one that is trusted and won't erase bad reviews. I'd like to see something where reviews decay over time though, similar to the HN frontpage. Once a review is "off the frontpage" long enough, it shouldn't be publicly accessible anymore. This would allow small businesses to regain their online reputation after a bad period. Anyway, too bad for Yelp that there isn'…

Reviews aren't meant to decay quickly, sure a restaurant could improve over time but many do not and creating online accounts or hiring people for fake reviews is most likely easier and cheaper.

Re: Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

#14

Post by jrockway »

tptacek wrote: post #10
jrockway wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is, however, a special place in hell reserved for the people whose business model revolves around squeezing mom and pop businesses. I don't know why mom-and-pop businesses should get a free pass on everything. They seem to think that because running a small business is not particularly profitable, that they shouldn't have to pay taxes, they shouldn't have to provide customer service, they shouldn't have reasona…

They don't deserve a free pass on anything. They do deserve not to be bullied by businesses with massively more resources in ways that don't improve market efficiency. I have no problem with Wal Mart killing off neighborhood True Value hardware stores; that has a demonstrable benefit (though perhaps not one I'd choose) for consumers. I have a clear problem with a parasitic business extracting cash from a neighborhood…

The business doesn't lose anything by not playing Yelp's game. You would still go to the cafe if it had a few bad reviews on Yelp, and so would I. (Then again, I read the content of reviews rather than the arbitrary star rating. If someone says "1 star, I ordered a salad and hated it because I hate vegetables" then I am not going to think negatively of the business that has this review attached. I am going to think, "damn people are dumb".)

Re: Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

#15

Post by kolosy »

jrockway wrote: post #14
tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't deserve a free pass on anything. They do deserve not to be bullied by businesses with massively more resources in ways that don't improve market efficiency. I have no problem with Wal Mart killing off neighborhood True Value hardware stores; that has a demonstrable benefit (though perhaps not one I'd choose) for consumers. I have a clear problem with a parasitic business extracting cash from a neighborhood…

The business doesn't lose anything by not playing Yelp's game. You would still go to the cafe if it had a few bad reviews on Yelp, and so would I. (Then again, I read the content of reviews rather than the arbitrary star rating. If someone says "1 star, I ordered a salad and hated it because I hate vegetables" then I am not going to think negatively of the business that has this review attached. I am going to think,…

my issue isn't impact on the guys that don't play, it's impact on the consumer from the guys that do. a crappy restaurant that has 5 star reviews because the bad ones were paid off hurts me financially.

Re: Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

#16

Post by rmorrison »

bugs wrote: post #13
rmorrison wrote: post #8

There is definitely room in the market for a new Yelp, one that is trusted and won't erase bad reviews. I'd like to see something where reviews decay over time though, similar to the HN frontpage. Once a review is "off the frontpage" long enough, it shouldn't be publicly accessible anymore. This would allow small businesses to regain their online reputation after a bad period. Anyway, too bad for Yelp that there isn'…

Reviews aren't meant to decay quickly, sure a restaurant could improve over time but many do not and creating online accounts or hiring people for fake reviews is most likely easier and cheaper.

I'm not saying that they need to decay quickly, just that there should be some notion of decay on reviews. Reviews from last year are not as important as those from last week, especially for a food establishment. You're right though, there does have to be protections in place against gaming too.

The problem is though, that every company will get some 1-star reviews, and there has to be some mechanism for them to get erased (eventually). This mechanism should be open, clear, and well known, not $300/month to the rating company. Otherwise, once a long-running, good company gets some critical mass of negative/crazy customers leaving 1-star reviews, they'd have to close or rename or something in order to get back that unfairly lost traffic.

Re: Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

#17

Post by jrockway »

kolosy wrote: post #15
jrockway wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business doesn't lose anything by not playing Yelp's game. You would still go to the cafe if it had a few bad reviews on Yelp, and so would I. (Then again, I read the content of reviews rather than the arbitrary star rating. If someone says "1 star, I ordered a salad and hated it because I hate vegetables" then I am not going to think negatively of the business that has this review attached. I am going to think,…

my issue isn't impact on the guys that don't play, it's impact on the consumer from the guys that do. a crappy restaurant that has 5 star reviews because the bad ones were paid off hurts me financially.

If you are letting random people on the Internet hurt you financially, you are doing something else wrong. Take everything you read with a grain of salt.

Re: Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

#18

Post by kolosy »

jrockway wrote: post #17
kolosy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my issue isn't impact on the guys that don't play, it's impact on the consumer from the guys that do. a crappy restaurant that has 5 star reviews because the bad ones were paid off hurts me financially.

If you are letting random people on the Internet hurt you financially, you are doing something else wrong. Take everything you read with a grain of salt.

hurt financially == going to a restaurant/store/{insert random b&m service provider here} that i shouldn't have gone to, and spend more time/money + get worse service/product out of as a result.

isn't the whole point of a review system to influence people's decisions?

Re: Real People. Real Reviews. Real Extortion Scheme?

#20

Post by jrockway »

kolosy wrote: post #18
jrockway wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are letting random people on the Internet hurt you financially, you are doing something else wrong. Take everything you read with a grain of salt.

hurt financially == going to a restaurant/store/{insert random b&m service provider here} that i shouldn't have gone to, and spend more time/money + get worse service/product out of as a result. isn't the whole point of a review system to influence people's decisions?

In the end, you hurt yourself financially. What if there was no review system at all?
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