Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#141

Post by cb18 » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 6:22 AM UTC

homogeneous wrote: post #138

cb18 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure somebody's tried it. But the differences are so large that no amount of statistical trickery is going to be able to make them go away. http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-lib... One must also consider that it isn't the density per se, but the populations. For example, you could compare two equally dense areas but made up of different population groups. You would find a difference.

What is often missed in these statistics is that 90% of the homicides committed by black citizens are committed against black citizens, so it's not surprising that blacks are overrepresented in homicide statistics since they are overrepresented in poor income neighborhoods where all the problems inherent to poverty exacerbate the cycle of violence.

So poor blacks kill each other in huge numbers, and poor whites don't. What's your point exactly?

Also, maybe you missed the black on white numbers which are off the charts compared to the inverse.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#142

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 6:36 AM UTC

homogeneous wrote: post #138

cb18 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure somebody's tried it. But the differences are so large that no amount of statistical trickery is going to be able to make them go away. http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-lib... One must also consider that it isn't the density per se, but the populations. For example, you could compare two equally dense areas but made up of different population groups. You would find a difference.

What is often missed in these statistics is that 90% of the homicides committed by black citizens are committed against black citizens, so it's not surprising that blacks are overrepresented in homicide statistics since they are overrepresented in poor income neighborhoods where all the problems inherent to poverty exacerbate the cycle of violence.

[deleted]

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#143

Post by snowwindwaves » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 6:41 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #131

snowwindwaves wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend wanted to buy the ex grow op house and he couldn't find a way to ever get a mortgage on it. And he works at a bank selling mortgages. So while some houses may be trashed by grow ops they are all assumed to be trashed and there is no way to remove the black mark from the property.

Shouldn't that drop the price until someone can buy it outright? You know, supply and demand? What's keeping the price up? Is the previous owner unwilling to sell so low?

the 1.5 million dollar house was for sale for 400,000. I'd say the price did drop. The bank had taken the house back from the owner because he was so far underwater on it and it was the bank selling it at 400,000.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#144

Post by chris_wot » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 6:43 AM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #140

chris_wot wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things are never so simple. If a country pulls this sort of thing too often, then negotiations with other nations (especially the one whose treaty you pulled out of) will necessarily be much less willing to negotiate new treaties with them. Treaties are more than just trade, they also signify a strong relationship between nations because the nations who negotiate treaties are signalling that they are willing to…

Well hopefully people notice that the narcotics treaties really just damage poorer countries and don't end up "fighting drugs" anyways. It's sad to see these made up "crimes" of drug selling and money "laundering", as they do suck up budgets, efforts, and lives in third world countries. One might be cubical enough to think e.g. the US loves this as a way to keep, say, Central America, under control.

I'm not saying they are good, only that it's better never to sign a treaty like this in the first place.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#145

Post by ImTalking » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 6:49 AM UTC

adnam wrote: post #26

what about Canada's responsibilities under certain international treaties to prohibit the production and supply of drugs?

Who cares about treaties which the US bullied everyone to sign.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#146

Post by Pyxl101 » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 6:59 AM UTC

homogeneous wrote: post #138

cb18 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure somebody's tried it. But the differences are so large that no amount of statistical trickery is going to be able to make them go away. http://www.infowars.com/black-crime-facts-that-the-white-lib... One must also consider that it isn't the density per se, but the populations. For example, you could compare two equally dense areas but made up of different population groups. You would find a difference.

What is often missed in these statistics is that 90% of the homicides committed by black citizens are committed against black citizens, so it's not surprising that blacks are overrepresented in homicide statistics since they are overrepresented in poor income neighborhoods where all the problems inherent to poverty exacerbate the cycle of violence.

Controlling for poverty does not remove the effect where blacks commit more crime than whites.

> As a means to assess these possibilities, I estimate separate regression equations for the black and white block groups in Atlanta. [...] Consistent with previous research, percent black retains a strong, significant effect on violent crime net of the effects of other controls. [...] Although this finding appears to provide partial support for the racial invariance assumption, the fact remains that for a large proportion of the black neighborhoods, the effect of disadvantage on violence is weaker than is the effect evident among all of the white neighborhoods in the analysis

http://www.udel.edu/soc/faculty/parker/SOCI836_S08_files/McN...

More white people than black live in poverty, yet blacks commit crime at far higher rates. For statistics see FBI and DOJ crime data:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/...

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/...

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

This topic could use more good science and research.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#147

Post by robbiep » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 7:07 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #122

andrewstuart wrote: post #58

In Australia "the Victorian government, is introducing laws in December to allow families access to medicinal cannabis in exceptional circumstances. " You have to be genuinely, deeply sick in Australia to be allowed to puff a joint. It's like living in the 1950's. So strange that Australia follows the world so quickly towards becoming more conservative and is so incredibly slow to become less conservative, even when…

Like Bill Hicks said: "Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally on our planet, serves a thousand different functions, all of them positive. To make marijuana against the law is like saying that God made a mistake."[1] I'm not huge in to this 'God' person, so replace 'God' with whatever is in fashion this week, the point stands. It's wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Harm reduction, we do it with alcohol. That's t…

As much as I am in favour of legalising and controlling drugs (as opposed to the current system) that is a horrible argument that Bill Hicks uses - opiates are legal however I firmly remain of the opinion that allowing recreational opiate use would be a terrible thing

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#148

Post by hasenj » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 7:16 AM UTC

I'm a little bit worried about this, actually.

I've been to Vancouver and it wasn't a very pretty sight.

The amount of homelessness and crime is 10 times more what I've seen anywhere else in North America.

There's an entire section (several blocks) in the Downtown area that's full of homeless people and the streets smell like urine.

Shops even in areas far away from downtown put posters on their windows saying they don't hold cash overnight. i.e. please thieves don't break in at night because you will not find any cash.

At the same time, Marijuana seemed like it was very easy to obtain, and for free too! There plenty of shops that give it away for free "for medical purposes". Some of them even advertise that they have a doctor who will prescribe it for you in case you don't already have a prescription!

I know correlation is not necessarily causation but easy access to Marijuana was the only significant difference between Vancouver and all the other cities I've visited in North America.

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#149

Post by xyzzy123 » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 7:21 AM UTC

hasenj wrote: post #148

I'm a little bit worried about this, actually. I've been to Vancouver and it wasn't a very pretty sight. The amount of homelessness and crime is 10 times more what I've seen anywhere else in North America. There's an entire section (several blocks) in the Downtown area that's full of homeless people and the streets smell like urine. Shops even in areas far away from downtown put posters on their windows saying they d…

I've also noticed that Vancouver is full of Canadians, unlike similar cities in North America.

[edit: sorry, this was a dumb comment, I misread North America as "USA"]

Re: Canada to introduce legislation to legalize recreational cannabis

#150

Post by chrissnell » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 7:23 AM UTC

hasenj wrote: post #148

I'm a little bit worried about this, actually. I've been to Vancouver and it wasn't a very pretty sight. The amount of homelessness and crime is 10 times more what I've seen anywhere else in North America. There's an entire section (several blocks) in the Downtown area that's full of homeless people and the streets smell like urine. Shops even in areas far away from downtown put posters on their windows saying they d…

I've been to Vancouver, too, and I've seen the street you're talking about. Drove down it with my family and it was shocking. Massive piles of trash everywhere, grocery carts, garbage bag "luggage", mobs of people. It was sad and quite shocking if you've never seen it before. Nothing I've seen in SF or LA compares to this.

But...I don't think marijuana caused that. I think it has a lot more to do with a permissive city than pot. Recreational pot is legal in my city (Tacoma, WA) and we don't have this issue. In fact, we have almost no problems with pot at all. My only complaint about the entire thing is the tacky advertising and storefronts that the pot industry uses to attract clients. The market is oversaturated and shop owners are desperate to survive and are resorting to decorating normally seen at used car lots and Liberty Tax outlets.