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Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

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Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#331

Post by nefitty »

nickff wrote: post #162
jessaustin wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly the EPA screwed up, but the BLM should have promoted rather than jailed the bureaucrat who sold the feral horses. That program should be ramped up: it would be better for the horses and for the arid environment that they inhabit if the absolutely necessary regular culling resulted in nutrition rather than thousands of horses penned up to no purpose for the rest of their lives. It's not as though we're going t…

I have heard of equivalent 'screwups' described as horrific criminal actions, described as being done by greedy, stupid, and lazy people who should be sent to federal prison; but alas, those were private parties. My point was that catastrophic negligence goes unpunished when committed by a bureaucrat. Horses were native to North America, and existed on the continent before humans arrived; they were probably wiped out…

Catastrophic negligence by bureaucrats is being prosecuted as we speak http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/20/health/flint-water-crisis-char...

You did say it goes unpunished but having charges filed is a step forward.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#332

Post by [deleted] »

maaku wrote: post #98
alwaysdoit wrote: post #38

We've done this lots[1] of[2] times[3] when it threatens agriculture, but when it threatens the lives of poor people in third world countries, suddenly we're worried about the ecosystem? There will be an environmental impact, but it will be from hundreds of millions of humans not getting malaria and climbing their way out of property, not from the lack of mosquitoes in the ecosystem. It's still a significant problem,…

Those eradications were paid for by the Department of Agriculture (and equivalent organizations in other regions). Who is going to pay for the mosquito? I'm not objecting. I think we should eradicate the mosquito. But as someone who has worked for the government (albeit a different branch) I know that bureaucrats are not being evil or heartless when they don't allocate funds for necessary work that falls outside of t…

[deleted]

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#333

Post by tempestn »

mikestew wrote: post #5

This is one of those ideas that sounds genius on its face, until it's actually implemented. Kudzu? Grows fast, prevents erosion, let's pay farmers to till it into the top soil. MTBE? Prevents engine knock, makes for cleaner air, let's mandate its use at the federal level. Whoopsie, once it's in the water we can't get it out, and its a carcinogen. Let's kill all of the mosquitos because we find their presence unpleasa…

What if they keep a bunch of unaltered mosquitoes in captivity while eradicating them in the wild? Then if it does have some unanticipated effect the change may be reversible. (Of course it's possible the re-released mosquitoes will be out-competed by whatever's moved in in their absence, but you've got a better chance than if you didn't keep a backup.)

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#334

Post by mirimir »

ommunist wrote: post #325
mirimir wrote: post #309

Do we really know biological systems well enough to globalize code that nukes all X chromosomes in sperm? Maybe there are unknown mechanisms for cross-species sequence transfer. That could end up being quite the Darwin award ;)

If there is simultaneously released artificial retrovirus, carried with Plasmodium, that will transfer gene to human blood from now sterile mosquito, than we are doomed. And from what I know about the US and current state of pharma research, that is entirely technically possible and application only depends from a certain political will. Discl. a good friend of mine developed biological weapons in late 80-ies. In 40…

Sure.

But then, anyone who'd do that could just include the code in the retrovirus ;)

There's a trope in dystopian SF (and maybe first, in Burroughs' Cities of the Red Night) about specifically targeting particular races.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#335

Post by dingo_bat »

justsaysmthng wrote: post #214

I'm a vegetarian for spiritual reasons and also because I don't agree with causing suffering to other species. If there's a fly in my room, buzzing on the window, I would open the window and let it fly away. If there's a big ant or a spider or a bee on my foot, I'd wait for it to explore me and then go on its way (although I'm scared of spiders and allergic to bee stings). But even a hardcore flower sniffing fly kiss…

>Maybe we should design mosquitoes with more advanced nervous systems - optimized for feeling pain and suffering - and make their bodies more resistant and stronger, so that humans can torture them properly.

You're scaring me (wo)man!

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#336

Post by CamperBob2 »

cb18 wrote: post #317
mirimir wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But it's social and cultural evolution that matter now.

Societies and cultures are just the emergent results of the interaction of phenotypes. i.e. Culture and people are one and the same.

No, you can opt out of the culture you were born into.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#337

Post by digler999 »

nickff wrote: post #114
maaku wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those eradications were paid for by the Department of Agriculture (and equivalent organizations in other regions). Who is going to pay for the mosquito? I'm not objecting. I think we should eradicate the mosquito. But as someone who has worked for the government (albeit a different branch) I know that bureaucrats are not being evil or heartless when they don't allocate funds for necessary work that falls outside of t…

> "bureaucrats are not being evil or heartless when they don't allocate funds for necessary work that falls outside of their mandate: they could go to jail for misallocation of taxpayer funds. " Which bureaucrat has gone to jail for making any decision of this sort? The BLM sold ~1700 protected wild horses to a slaughterhouse a few years ago, and I don't think anyone was even reprimanded.[1] EPA allowed 11 million li…

> ~1700 protected wild horses

you mean invasive wild horses, don't you ? the ones that were brought here by western conquistadors ?

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#338

Post by Dove »

I am astonished by the comments in this thread. Many people seem to assume that the chance of disaster as a result of wiping out mosquitoes is high - a sentiment I can only assume arises from having watched a lot of movies with the Arrogant And Foolish Scientist's Ill-Thought-Out Plan Backfires plot. It is good to think through consequences, but supposing that real world scientists acting deliberately and collaboratively will make the same mistakes that movie scientists make for the sake of drama - I find that a concerningly distorted perception of reality.

It's sort of like the people who react to robotics with concerns that the robots will go rogue and turn on their creators. Yeah, this is like a 90% probability event in movies, but that does not make it a reasonable thing to worry about in the real world.

Yeah, of course we should carefully think through the consequences before acting. That's what is happening. But if the mosquito experts say the ecological impact is likely to be negligible, then it probably will be. These guys are experts. Species go extinct all the time, and life goes on because it's pretty robust.

I'm not saying scientists are all knowing and can foresee all side effects, though I suspect if they are willing to state a view like that with confidence, they won't be far off. What I'm saying is the ZOMG BIRDS EAT MOSQUITOS and WHAT IF WE INFECT OURSELVES AND GET WIPED OUT talk is a little silly. Cool it there, Spielberg. ;)

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#339

Post by kpil »

charlieflowers wrote: post #260
kpil wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was malaria in Sweden a couple of hundred years ago, and we still have a few mosquitos. It was never a big problem but malaria went away when it couldn't spread efficiently, largely because of better houses and hygiene such as not keeping the cattle in the same house (room) as the people. Also a lot of breeding ground was dried out and converted to farm land. I'm all for releasing CRISPR on the worst species of…

It's sad when a chain of logical reasoning points out (again) how weird it is that we cannot solve the real problem, which is "Why is there a third world in the first place?" Why does there have to be a region in permanent squalor? Why can't every place on earth where civilization exists be a decent place for humans to live, with peace, opportunity and sanitation? But ... back down to earth. Since we can't fix that l…

I'd guess that the climate in Sweden helps too, so I still think we need CRISPR.

Coincidentally, there are quite many areas in Sweden were it is impossible to go outside in the summer without mosquito nets, and it is worsening.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#340

Post by [deleted] »

learc83 wrote: post #326
dr_toolittle wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are considered harmful to the world as a whole. There's only one human species that would need to be eliminated to solve that problem. You up for that as well?

I want to eliminate harmful mosquitoes to benefit humanity. I place more value on the well being of humanity than I do on that of the rest of the world. In general, I value the well being of the world as a whole, but mostly because it's beneficial to humanity. If we eliminate ourselves, there can be no benefit to humanity--so no, I am not up for that as well. In this specific case, I don't place any intrinsic value i…

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