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Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

martinfowler.com

21–30 of 130 posts

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#21
post #14

I don't disagree with the thesis of the article, but the creators of the ENIAC were given no mention and they skipped right to the 'computer girls' as if they were fully responsible for it's genesis.

Because the article isn't about the ENIAC at all. It's about how programming transitioned from being a menial (and thus women's) job, to a prestigious (and thus male) job.

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#22
post #19

So many mysteries of the modern world become quite understandable when you allow yourself the luxury of understanding the relevance of intelligence. It varies among races, knowledge of this is scientifically sound, it is the consensus of everyone who studies it seriously. The modern tendency is to feverishly avert one's eyes from this fact, but it must be reckoned with eventually. I believe we'll all be better off wh…

knowledge of this is scientifically sound, it is the consensus of everyone who studies it seriously.

This is so untrue, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. The overwhelming consensus by scientists at reputable top universities don't allege this at all. But I'm sure you can find it at fringe or less reputable state universities.

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#23
post #19

So many mysteries of the modern world become quite understandable when you allow yourself the luxury of understanding the relevance of intelligence. It varies among races, knowledge of this is scientifically sound, it is the consensus of everyone who studies it seriously. The modern tendency is to feverishly avert one's eyes from this fact, but it must be reckoned with eventually. I believe we'll all be better off wh…

knowledge of this is scientifically sound, it is the consensus of everyone who studies it seriously. This is so untrue, I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. The overwhelming consensus by scientists at reputable top universities don't allege this at all. But I'm sure you can find it at fringe or less reputable state universities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_Science_on_Intellig...

This is a false statement: The overwhelming consensus by scientists at reputable top universities don't allege this at all.

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#24
post #16
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google doesn't really select for high GPA.

Maybe they don't select for high GPA but students with high GPAs in high school presumably have a higher chance of getting into a top 10 college and I imagine Google prefers students from top schools

I think they only care if it's your first (or maybe second) job. After that, experience is more important.

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If anything Google needs more different minorities if anything, for instance Latinos and Blacks. Why? I think equal opportunity is a better goal than equal representation. Forced equal representation can quickly deteriorate to racism/sexism. Inequality in the name of equality.

I seriously don't think there can be anything such as equal opportunity. As there is bias at every part of the hiring process. Equal representation means that more or less wealth is being directed far and wide to people that represent all groups. Having money means having power to affect policies and politics as well as economics. So for creating any sense of equality in society it's a fact that there needs to be mor…

You can segment the human population in any way and assign equal power to each of these groups. Why segment the population by race?

Life is inherently unfair. There will always be differences in power. The goal can't be to assign equal power to everyone because it is impossible. The best goal is to ensure that there isn't a huge difference in power. Equal opportunity provides that guarantee.

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#26
post #19

So many mysteries of the modern world become quite understandable when you allow yourself the luxury of understanding the relevance of intelligence. It varies among races, knowledge of this is scientifically sound, it is the consensus of everyone who studies it seriously. The modern tendency is to feverishly avert one's eyes from this fact, but it must be reckoned with eventually. I believe we'll all be better off wh…

Very interested to know how you believe conflating economic, social, and geographical/geopolitical factors (e.g. clusters of poverty and their effect on upbringings) have all been filtered out of this supposed consensus conclusion.

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#27
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously don't think there can be anything such as equal opportunity. As there is bias at every part of the hiring process. Equal representation means that more or less wealth is being directed far and wide to people that represent all groups. Having money means having power to affect policies and politics as well as economics. So for creating any sense of equality in society it's a fact that there needs to be mor…

You can segment the human population in any way and assign equal power to each of these groups. Why segment the population by race? Life is inherently unfair. There will always be differences in power. The goal can't be to assign equal power to everyone because it is impossible. The best goal is to ensure that there isn't a huge difference in power. Equal opportunity provides that guarantee.

In regard to the US, the obvious answer is that some races were literally oppressed on that very basis for decades/centuries.

That was not a passive activity. So is it any real surprise that it might have long-lasting effects that need active, rather than passive, countering?

EDIT: your comment reads differently after your addition of the second paragraph so now I don't know if I'm disagreeing with you or answering a rhetorical question or what. Regardless...

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#28
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If anything Google needs more different minorities if anything, for instance Latinos and Blacks. Why? I think equal opportunity is a better goal than equal representation. Forced equal representation can quickly deteriorate to racism/sexism. Inequality in the name of equality.

I seriously don't think there can be anything such as equal opportunity. As there is bias at every part of the hiring process. Equal representation means that more or less wealth is being directed far and wide to people that represent all groups. Having money means having power to affect policies and politics as well as economics. So for creating any sense of equality in society it's a fact that there needs to be mor…

Jobs are not for spreading wealth to different groups. If that's all Google was doing it wouldnt need any of the employees to come into the office. Companies hire people to provide services, not to be an open hand waiting for money.

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#29
I don't deny that there is some history in the current representation of programmers but I don't buy that socially awkward white males are somehow oppressing diversity in general as some would suggest. When they supposedly aren't, it's a brogrammer problem and blatant sexism. Everyone wants to find someone to blame.

Granted this was 9 years ago, but when I was in computer engineering we had a few classes with only 1 female. All the nerdy types flocked to her and were very inclusive with team projects.

I'm a partner in a 6 yr old business and I've just recently started to see more women programmers. Most of my job postings would get zero female applicants. However, my last 2 engineering hires were women that came through our internal network and they've been excellent.

Account managers and project managers - generally women applicants. Engineers = male nerds of all types. I welcome more female engineers but it's challenging to hire them if there aren't enough and they don't apply.

EDIT: spelling

Re: Born for it – How the image of software developers came about

#30
post #19

So many mysteries of the modern world become quite understandable when you allow yourself the luxury of understanding the relevance of intelligence. It varies among races, knowledge of this is scientifically sound, it is the consensus of everyone who studies it seriously. The modern tendency is to feverishly avert one's eyes from this fact, but it must be reckoned with eventually. I believe we'll all be better off wh…

> [Intelligence] varies among races, knowledge of this is scientifically sound, it is the consensus of everyone who studies it seriously.

Holy fuck. Yeah. I'm calling you out for being a racist fuck. Your "human biodiversity" aka "scientific racism" is a pseudoscience that has no basis at all. All your ideas better explained by economics.

So in conclusion, fuck you.

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