Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes • Hacker News Board

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#271

Post by lucideer » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:23 PM UTC

rimantas wrote: post #79

lucideer wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could easily be framed as a misattribution of cause though. Mosquitos occur world-wide, and even flourish in many climates where rates of infection from mosquito-borne diseases are relatively low. As an example, 90% of deaths from Malaria occur in sub-Saharan Africa, and even there, the likelihood of death from infection is radically lower for western visitors than for locals. These diseases are largely a result…

So we get as many cases of malaria in Europe, just nobody dies from it? Or maybe it does indeed has something to do with mosquitos after all?

I'm not sure where I suggested there are as many cases in Europe?

Mosquitoes do exist in Europe; they don't spread malaria because it isn't there to spread, and it isn't there to spread because of effective healthcare.

(Europe isn't a great example as the mosquito population is not exactly high, which I guess is climate-related, but the above is also true of parts of the developed world where their populations are higher)

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#272

Post by gerbilly » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:27 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #2

Sometimes I wonder if the relentless human intervention in every aspect of nature will create or leave only life that has a value to people, like cows and wheat, or that which can resist domination or destruction by humans, like HIV, treatment-resistant bacteria, and the unassailable cockroach. Perhaps after a period of rapid upheaval, humanity develops the technology to capture and control those super powerful flora…

Harpers magazine had an article on just this: Planet of Weeds by David Quammen

http://www.botany.wisc.edu/courses/botany_422/readings/Quamm...

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#273

Post by quotemstr » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:34 PM UTC

aethertap wrote: post #125

quotemstr wrote: post #84

I'm disappointed that the prevailing sentiment is applying the precautionary principle. We didn't create a technological civilization by being absolutely sure of all possible consequences before acting. That approach would have paralyzed us. Technology is a boon. It's done some harm, but a whole lot of good. Let's not throw up our hands and decide that we're no longer comfortable modifying our environment to suit us.

There is a long list of things about our technological civilization that would have benefited from applying the precautionary principle a little more. We're in damage control mode right now for a large number of environmental catastrophes, our agricultural techniques of the last half-century or so have depleted and desertified a large amount of prime arable land, we're rapidly shooting ourselves in the foot by abusin…

I see where you'd coming from, but it's easy to see the costs now that we're so utterly used to the benefits. Use of filthy, polluting energy sources was a necessary stepping stone for the industrial revolution. There was no way to go directly from Newcomen's engine to ITER. Sure, the process left us with some problems to solve, but compared to the alternative, they're good problems to have. If we'd applied the precautionary principle, knowing what we know now, we'd never have had an industrial revolution, nor a green revolution, and we wouldn't be here to talk about it.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#274

Post by dmd » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:40 PM UTC

kls wrote: post #118

Avshalom wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Alaskan AND a Floridian: If they wanna auction/raffle off the privilege of throwing the switch I would attempt to give them all my money.

I am pretty much ground zero of where they want to release them down here in the FL Keys and I am all for it. The amount of chemicals they pump out in the summer months is enough to sway me towards the belief that it can not be much if any riskier. When we hear the hum of the mosquito truck we have to yell, to our kids playing outside, to get in the house and stay out of the mist. Most of the other locals are vehemen…

When my mom was little, "it was very exciting when we heard the DDT truck coming and all the kids would run out of their houses or off the beach and run behind the fogging truck...the smell was kind of sweet and running in the DDT fog was fun."

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#275

Post by btilly » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 12:03 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #202

bduerst wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really an apples to apples comparison. All of those are invasive species, except for the screw fly, which isn't a large part of a biological ecosystem (e.g. a sizeable portion of the Myotis lucifugus diet).

In principle why should it matter whether a particular species is native or invasive? Regardless of whether a particular species spread to an area naturally or were introduced by humans we have to deal with them as they exist today. And certainly some mosquito species are invasive to the areas where they live now.

It matters because unless you understand the ecosystem very well, you don't know what else the presence of a native species affects.

For example look at the phenomena of keystone species. If you remove starfish from a beach, the mussels will take over and the rest of the tidepool animals get wiped out. The reason is that the starfish prefer eating mussels and so maintain a balance. Unless you really know the ecosystem, it is hard to tell what is a keystone species that completely changes things.

An introduced species is easier. Unless it is in the same ecological niche as a native, there is no possibility that it is a necessary part of the balance.

Unfortunately, mosquitoes are likely to have a significant ecological role. They have preferred targets. Their role as a disease vector affects what population density those targets can have. Wipe out the mosquitoes, and you don't know what will happen to that ecosystem.

That said, I've been bitten by enough mosquitoes that I'm willing to risk it...

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#276

Post by tropo » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 12:08 AM UTC

ommunist wrote: post #164

x1798DE wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the ongoing cost of eliminating cars would be enormous. The ancestor post is saying that there would be only fixed costs involved in eliminating malaria-transmitting species of mosquito.

What really ailes me is that all research is concentrated on killing poor mosquitoes, not the Plasmodium, which is the real cause of the disease. Should we also kill all the cats because they carry Toxoplasmae?

Given the that Toxoplasmae causes detrimental brain effects in humans, yes. Absolutely 100% unquestionably yes, without a doubt.

We could keep a few cats isolated behind glass in zoos. Isolated cats don't matter.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#277

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 12:13 AM UTC

btilly wrote: post #275

nradov wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In principle why should it matter whether a particular species is native or invasive? Regardless of whether a particular species spread to an area naturally or were introduced by humans we have to deal with them as they exist today. And certainly some mosquito species are invasive to the areas where they live now.

It matters because unless you understand the ecosystem very well, you don't know what else the presence of a native species affects. For example look at the phenomena of keystone species. If you remove starfish from a beach, the mussels will take over and the rest of the tidepool animals get wiped out. The reason is that the starfish prefer eating mussels and so maintain a balance. Unless you really know the ecosyste…

They have preferred targets.

The methods discussed in the article can be targeted on a per species basis. The action could be limited to mosquito species that prefer to target humans.

(the sterile male method is already being used)

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#278

Post by dunstad » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 12:22 AM UTC

MrArtichaut wrote: post #136

I'm the only one not comfortable with the idea of wiping whole species just because we don't like them? I mean, I'm far fromthe Gaia thing, but what rights do we have to do that? And next? Rats, cockroaches? Hey, this specie of birds doesn't do anything useful and eat our fruits, why not killing them all? Mosquitoes aren't even "responsible" for those diseases... Maybe we should invest in proactive body defenses agai…

Humans do not like seeing their family and friends die. The motivational force to prevent that from happening is very strong. Ultimately, that's why we're killing the mosquitos.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#279

Post by fiblye » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 12:31 AM UTC

alwaysdoit wrote: post #38

We've done this lots[1] of[2] times[3] when it threatens agriculture, but when it threatens the lives of poor people in third world countries, suddenly we're worried about the ecosystem? There will be an environmental impact, but it will be from hundreds of millions of humans not getting malaria and climbing their way out of property, not from the lack of mosquitoes in the ecosystem. It's still a significant problem,…

You're comparing individual species with an entire family.

Countless animals rely on mosquitoes as a valuable food source. And before someone brings up the tired "mosquito predators all eat things besides mosquitoes" argument, people eat food besides grains. It doesn't mean we wouldn't still be 100% fucked if rice and wheat went extinct overnight.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#280

Post by abrookewood » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 12:57 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #196

James001 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem is how do we actually eradicate mosquito's without introducing other severely risks? For example, one of the popular techniques is releasing genetically modified mosquitoes that are sterile. The problem is we don't know what could happen if/when these modified genes spread into the wider environment It's a very serious concern, whether or not eradicating mosquitoes will introduce more severe problems

How do sterile mosquitos spread their genes? (Genuine question! I don't know what the risk is)

When using sterile mosquitoes, the idea isn't that they pass on their genes, but that they dominate mating and therefore disrupt the breeding cycle. I.e. you release LOTS of sterile males and the normal females spend time mating with them instead of normal males and the population therefore decreases (until you run out of sterile males).

I think the better option (also in the article) is to release engineered males that result on male only offspring. Eventually you run out of females and the species dies off.