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Scientific Regress

firstthings.com

21–30 of 56 posts

Re: Scientific Regress

#21
My father spent every night of his 30 year career researching semiconductors with a deep belief he would be fired next week if he couldn't bring in enough grant money. He is an amazing scientist and you wouldn't be on the internet today without his spadework but he couldn't give a rat's ass about funding.

One day a former grad student showed him some pictures.

"That's my lab!" He said.

"No, that's the replica I built of your lab in China for 1/100 of the cost."

Science is such a noble pursuit. If only it were separable from humanity's endless supply of greedy pricks.

Re: Scientific Regress

#22

>>>First Things is published by The Institute on Religion and Public Life, an interreligious, nonpartisan research and education institute whose purpose is to advance a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society. I'm not quite sure what to think about the bias we might be seeing in this post from this site. This is quite a long essay and there's not a single link on a site that seems like it w…

Biased against what? Science? How long until we get rid of the 'religion is against science' narrative?

Re: Scientific Regress

#23
The problem is that fields don't advance in a continuous process, but its in bursts of stop and go. This state with a lack of progress and entrenched thought schools is prelude to another fracking of the unknown. Somebody in all this science looks on the "outliers" and will connect the dots. And the truth is, that not the science community grants the ultimate reward- but society and economics, via application.

You can assemble a thousand followers, claiming that electrons are little golden dwarfs, running through the metal if fed with potatoes, but the world wants chips without chips, so what hinders science? Globalization, border-lessness, in a ironic twist, cause where can that industrial revolution flourish and reward overcome all prejudices? When the potato religion/ideology is the same everywhere, there is noway to run too for the first battery maker.

One of the charlatans is not one. Better to feed a hundred of them, for the one to prevail.

Re: Scientific Regress

#24
post #12

>But it adds to this a pinch of glib frivolity and a dash of unembarrassed ignorance. Its rhetorical tics include a forced enthusiasm (a search on Twitter for the hashtag “#sciencedancing” speaks volumes) and a penchant for profanity. Here in Silicon Valley, one can scarcely go a day without seeing a t-shirt reading “Science: It works, b—es!” The hero of the recent popular movie The Martian boasts that he will “scien…

I agree with most of your comment, but here are two nitpicks.

>This is what makes the cult of science dangerous, not the word "bitches".

Nobody said that, so there's no need to burn your strawman there.

Science is all about the method and proper use of critical thinking, so you could assume it is a direct contradiction to have a vapid attitude of shitty reposts of forced-meme-tier macros that are often inaccurate, without trying to think about it an instant because it's nice virtue signaling (IFL in a nutshell). But you're right, he could write it explicitly.

There's a nice writeup of this problem on the language log [0], arguing that science is basically filling the role of biblical parables.

>Woo-pushers have appropriated the vocabulary of science indistinguishable to a layperson.

They are not responsible for that, and honestly, nobody is. Recently, I read the description of some machine learning algorithm that was filled with buzzwords and dubious physics analogies to a point that I thought it was a clever Sokal, but after some reading all of it was genuine. That's just how jargon works, you assume that the one who using it understands what he is saying, as long as he's using it seemingly properly, but you can't know unless you have a sufficiently good grasp of the semantics.

[0]http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003847.h...

Re: Scientific Regress

#25
Many years ago I started out as a Chem major. After 3 years and many hours I quit.

My grades were swell, I still loved science - but I couldn't be honest with myself that I was going to be a real scientists in the end.

So here's what typically goes wrong: You get a lab assignment. Somewhere along 4th hour or second week you screw up and grab the lab ass for help. He says "sorry - just keep going."

You won't get a do-over. You can't afford to start over because the expected competence requires immediate good results.

Your lab time is limited and resources are scarce. If you want the grade you'd better "learn from your mistakes" and "be more careful next time."

What about the results? Well you already have a pre-conceived notion of what they should be. Maybe you get them from your mates, or look them up.

Learning from our mistakes is "science code language" for pushing small known nudges and data "massaging" as an acceptable method for passing the course.

Perhaps at one time students really did learn and grow from these mistakes - but the modern concept of failing is simply a quick exit from a highly competitive major.

All the while my own scientific rigor which I was supposed to be enforcing on my own results was slowly corrupted.

I couldn't truly say that my practise in the scientific method was honestly the truthful result of my own observations and methods. Perhaps I was just too anal at the time - so be it.

I worked in an environmental testing lab and the sloppy procedures practiced were sometimes much the same.

Circumstantial? Yes. Take of it what you will. But if my experience is like that of others - such corruption as reported here doesn't surprise me.

Science should be about failure as much as it is about success. Failure is a valid result - but we often fail to oblige real and honest failure as scientifically and (most importantly) educationally valid.

That was my draw to CompSci. Our very embrace of failure as a tool for learning. I absolutely love it.

Re: Scientific Regress

#26

Many years ago I started out as a Chem major. After 3 years and many hours I quit. My grades were swell, I still loved science - but I couldn't be honest with myself that I was going to be a real scientists in the end. So here's what typically goes wrong: You get a lab assignment. Somewhere along 4th hour or second week you screw up and grab the lab ass for help. He says "sorry - just keep going." You won't get a do-…

I'm going to read that as short for "lab assistant" :-D

Re: Scientific Regress

#27
post #9

>>>First Things is published by The Institute on Religion and Public Life, an interreligious, nonpartisan research and education institute whose purpose is to advance a religiously informed public philosophy for the ordering of society. I'm not quite sure what to think about the bias we might be seeing in this post from this site. This is quite a long essay and there's not a single link on a site that seems like it w…

Hi, I'm the author. Just wanted to pop in and say: (1) I originally had the thing stuffed full of citations and links, but since they wanted to print it in the paper magazine, we stripped all those out. If you want a reference for any particular claim, I'm happy to provide. (2) First Things didn't pressure me to make any content or editorial modifications to the article. The sole exception was one or two more technic…

I was interested in finding the paper from which you got this quote: "some non-reproducible preclinical papers had spawned an entire field".

Seems to be from: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v483/n7391/full/483531a...

Re: Scientific Regress

#28

I am a post-doctoral research scientist that has wanted to be a scientist since early childhood (6-7 years old). The structure of how science is practiced seems to have changed substantially in that time frame, not for the better. Some of my childhood naivete plays a role in those perceptions, but many older scientists share that perspective. A lot of the problems in modern science revolve around the growing focus on…

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I think labs with more professional scientists (Research Scientists as opposed to postdocs and grad students) might be the way of the future and a Good Thing. There are obviously too many PhDs trained today to work in the academic market, but I think it's also likely we're training too many bioscience PhDs for industry as well. It would require more money for sure, but I think the concept of depending on an indentured servant class/apprenticeship model developed in the middle ages to execute most academic research isn't ideal. I think professionalizing the lower levels of academic science would make for a fairer, less exploitative, and because the practitioners would be more skilled, potentially more productive scientific academy.

Re: Scientific Regress

#29

Many years ago I started out as a Chem major. After 3 years and many hours I quit. My grades were swell, I still loved science - but I couldn't be honest with myself that I was going to be a real scientists in the end. So here's what typically goes wrong: You get a lab assignment. Somewhere along 4th hour or second week you screw up and grab the lab ass for help. He says "sorry - just keep going." You won't get a do-…

I'm going to read that as short for "lab assistant" :-D

Yes, that's right. It was our term of endearment for the poor grad student that was stuck with the undergrads. He or she had to deal with our mistakes and assist in proper methodology and procuring lab materials.

Re: Scientific Regress

#30

My father spent every night of his 30 year career researching semiconductors with a deep belief he would be fired next week if he couldn't bring in enough grant money. He is an amazing scientist and you wouldn't be on the internet today without his spadework but he couldn't give a rat's ass about funding. One day a former grad student showed him some pictures. "That's my lab!" He said. "No, that's the replica I built…

What's the problem with the lab in China? I don't get it.
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