Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes • Hacker News Board

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#111

Post by Turing_Machine » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

mod wrote: post #72

mc32 wrote: post #3

Sounds good, but afaik only a few mosquito species actually are spreaders of diseases affecting humans. I suppose I don't know if those pathogens can mutate to use other mosquitoes as hosts. While we're at it, get rid of ticks.

+chiggers

We've already got a good start on guinea worms (they'd already be gone if it weren't for a set of superstitious, fuckface warlords in certain African countries).

Other prime candidates:

Pediculus humanus (human louse, including the head and body subspecies).

Pthirus pubis (crab louse)

Onchocerca volvulus (causes river blindness)

Trichomonas vaginalis (causes nasty vaginal infections, and can be carried and spread by men)

Ascaris lumbricoides (giant human roundworm)

I believe all of these are parasites specific to human beings, and find it highly unlikely that wiping them out would cause any significant ecological catastrophe.

Those who disagree would be welcome to serve as hosts a fallback population, so we could restore them if it became necessary. Concerned about Aedes aegypti mosquitos? Sign up to serve as a blood donor for them. You can help save the species, at the small cost of yellow fever, dengue, chikungunya, and (apparently) zika.

What, that doesn't sound like a good deal? Then why are you willing to wish that fate on others? Especially unwilling others?

Sorry for any sarcasm, but it's quite disturbing to see First Worlders condemning Third Worlders to horrible deaths because of ecowhacko "concerns" about friggin' mosquitos.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#112

Post by Turing_Machine » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:34 PM UTC

TheCondor wrote: post #70

Turing_Machine wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more on point: Which is likely to cause more ecological damgage: 1) Wipe out two (of over 3,500) species of mosquito 2) Spray poisons indiscriminately, wiping out many different species of insect, both mosquitos and non-mosquitos?

Don't things eat mosquitos? Do any of those things matter?

No one is talking about wiping out all mosquitos.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#113

Post by hellbanner » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:35 PM UTC

Turing_Machine wrote: post #58

llamaimperative wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but that isn't even the million dollar question because the answer will never be "yes." The real question is how certain do we have to be about their role before we decide the gamble is worth it? In this thread you see wealthy westerners complaining that mosquitos are a nuisance. In many parts of the world they are holocaust-scale killers. It gets to an age old question re: the precautionary principle, and a lot…

Even more on point: Which is likely to cause more ecological damgage: 1) Wipe out two (of over 3,500) species of mosquito 2) Spray poisons indiscriminately, wiping out many different species of insect, both mosquitos and non-mosquitos?

Thanks for bringing this up. Since no one's brought this up already, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_laser

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#114

Post by nickff » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:36 PM UTC

maaku wrote: post #98

alwaysdoit wrote: post #38

We've done this lots[1] of[2] times[3] when it threatens agriculture, but when it threatens the lives of poor people in third world countries, suddenly we're worried about the ecosystem? There will be an environmental impact, but it will be from hundreds of millions of humans not getting malaria and climbing their way out of property, not from the lack of mosquitoes in the ecosystem. It's still a significant problem,…

Those eradications were paid for by the Department of Agriculture (and equivalent organizations in other regions). Who is going to pay for the mosquito? I'm not objecting. I think we should eradicate the mosquito. But as someone who has worked for the government (albeit a different branch) I know that bureaucrats are not being evil or heartless when they don't allocate funds for necessary work that falls outside of t…

>"bureaucrats are not being evil or heartless when they don't allocate funds for necessary work that falls outside of their mandate: they could go to jail for misallocation of taxpayer funds. "

Which bureaucrat has gone to jail for making any decision of this sort? The BLM sold ~1700 protected wild horses to a slaughterhouse a few years ago, and I don't think anyone was even reprimanded.[1] EPA allowed 11 million litres of contaminated, toxic wastewater to pollute the a river, and no disciplinary action was taken (that I know of), even though it seems this would be negligence (or a criminal offense) if a private party had done it.[2]

[1] http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/14/17708998-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Gold_King_Mine_waste_wate...

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#115

Post by option_greek » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:36 PM UTC

alwaysdoit wrote: post #38

We've done this lots[1] of[2] times[3] when it threatens agriculture, but when it threatens the lives of poor people in third world countries, suddenly we're worried about the ecosystem? There will be an environmental impact, but it will be from hundreds of millions of humans not getting malaria and climbing their way out of property, not from the lack of mosquitoes in the ecosystem. It's still a significant problem,…

As someone who suffered the wrath of both malaria and dengue, I can't agree enough.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#116

Post by harshreality » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:36 PM UTC

maaku wrote: post #98

alwaysdoit wrote: post #38

We've done this lots[1] of[2] times[3] when it threatens agriculture, but when it threatens the lives of poor people in third world countries, suddenly we're worried about the ecosystem? There will be an environmental impact, but it will be from hundreds of millions of humans not getting malaria and climbing their way out of property, not from the lack of mosquitoes in the ecosystem. It's still a significant problem,…

Those eradications were paid for by the Department of Agriculture (and equivalent organizations in other regions). Who is going to pay for the mosquito? I'm not objecting. I think we should eradicate the mosquito. But as someone who has worked for the government (albeit a different branch) I know that bureaucrats are not being evil or heartless when they don't allocate funds for necessary work that falls outside of t…

Play up the (Zika) birth defect angle. Potential parents will be scared to death and will scream at their legislators to do something. There's all the funding they need.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#117

Post by nine_k » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:37 PM UTC

harperlee wrote: post #71

hellbanner wrote: post #7

On reddit, I remember seeing something like "Research assures government that killing mosquitos would have no negative effect on world ecology"... right above another thread titled "Scientists underestimate ecological impact of species destruction"... Do we actually understand Mosquitos role in the planet's eco system?

I was reminded by your post of Chesterton's fence: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fen...

If the fence would be e.g. electrocuting hundreds of thousands of humans a year, maybe the depth of the due diligence could be somehow limited.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#118

Post by kls » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:37 PM UTC

Avshalom wrote: post #106

maaku wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those eradications were paid for by the Department of Agriculture (and equivalent organizations in other regions). Who is going to pay for the mosquito? I'm not objecting. I think we should eradicate the mosquito. But as someone who has worked for the government (albeit a different branch) I know that bureaucrats are not being evil or heartless when they don't allocate funds for necessary work that falls outside of t…

As an Alaskan AND a Floridian: If they wanna auction/raffle off the privilege of throwing the switch I would attempt to give them all my money.

I am pretty much ground zero of where they want to release them down here in the FL Keys and I am all for it. The amount of chemicals they pump out in the summer months is enough to sway me towards the belief that it can not be much if any riskier. When we hear the hum of the mosquito truck we have to yell, to our kids playing outside, to get in the house and stay out of the mist. Most of the other locals are vehemently opposed to their release. I say they cannot release them fast enough.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#119

Post by Turing_Machine » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:38 PM UTC

astazangasta wrote: post #81

Turing_Machine wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Vector control is fucking hard, we've been trying it for a century without really fixing the problem. That isn't likely to change" With CRISPR and gene drive, it changes from "fucking hard" to "trivial", so it is not only likely to change, it's already changed.

Can you show me an actual program using CRISPR and gene drive that's produced some effective changes? As far as I know this is still in the realm of theory. And given that we're talking about a single resistance mechanism, I'm going to guess that it will very quickly be defeated by evolution. DDT was the "perfect" mosquito killer, as well. It didn't last - resistance inevitably follows these attempts in wild populati…

Can you show me an actual program using CRISPR and gene drive that's produced some effective changes?

So your argument is that it can't be done because no one has done it?

No one has released gene drive systems to the wild, but there is every reason to believe that it will work fine, and no credible reason to believe that it won't.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#120

Post by roywiggins » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 6:41 PM UTC

bbarn wrote: post #53

Serious question: In areas where Malaria is killing many people, access to health care is a big part of why, right? So I'm assuming if you just removed the mosquitos, those people that died would be alive, and putting greater strain on already famine-like food economies. Wouldn't that be equally as bad?

All the people chronically sickened by malaria (but not killed) could be more productive. Probably the strain from chronic malaria is worse for an economy than any theoretical strain due to feeding a few million more people.