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Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

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Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#31

Post by noir_lord »

dasil003 wrote: post #4
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #2

Sometimes I wonder if the relentless human intervention in every aspect of nature will create or leave only life that has a value to people, like cows and wheat, or that which can resist domination or destruction by humans, like HIV, treatment-resistant bacteria, and the unassailable cockroach. Perhaps after a period of rapid upheaval, humanity develops the technology to capture and control those super powerful flora…

I suspect our ecosystem would collapse and humanity itself would be collateral damage before that actually came to pass, maybe I'm overly pessimistic though.

Given what we've achieved in the last 200 years I wouldn't put it past us to terraform the entire Earth into a giant garden,

> Under the FAO's definitions above, agricultural land covers 38.4% of the world's land area as of 2011 [1]

You could argue we already have.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_land

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#32

Post by bognition »

jonahrd wrote: post #22

I remember reading some old tale about all the animals gathering to decide what to do about humanity. Every animal hated humans, so they all voted to destroy us. Except the mosquito, which was the only one to stand up for us because they needed food. The moral of the story was that in return for looking out for us, we should let mosquitoes drink what they need from us. (not my story, I read it in a history book about…

I remember reading the same story, however in this case I'm not sure how the metaphor should be applied

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#33

Post by nnain »

mikestew wrote: post #5

This is one of those ideas that sounds genius on its face, until it's actually implemented. Kudzu? Grows fast, prevents erosion, let's pay farmers to till it into the top soil. MTBE? Prevents engine knock, makes for cleaner air, let's mandate its use at the federal level. Whoopsie, once it's in the water we can't get it out, and its a carcinogen. Let's kill all of the mosquitos because we find their presence unpleasa…

I am all for environment and sustainability, but in case of mosquitoes, even I would draw an exception! You have to be in a tropical country to know how many nights they spoil and how much effort it is, everyday, to keep yourself insulated -- all those Aerosols, sprays, nets... So much effort and resources. They are under the desks, in corners, in gardens, everywhere.. they seriously affect the lifestyle in a bad way.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#34

Post by StavrosK »

jonahrd wrote: post #22

I remember reading some old tale about all the animals gathering to decide what to do about humanity. Every animal hated humans, so they all voted to destroy us. Except the mosquito, which was the only one to stand up for us because they needed food. The moral of the story was that in return for looking out for us, we should let mosquitoes drink what they need from us. (not my story, I read it in a history book about…

So if I steal food from you every day and some of my friends want to kill you, and I say "no, don't kill him, I need him so I can steal food", you should give me food every day as thanks?

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#35

Post by DougWebb »

pkaye wrote: post #21
mikestew wrote: post #5

This is one of those ideas that sounds genius on its face, until it's actually implemented. Kudzu? Grows fast, prevents erosion, let's pay farmers to till it into the top soil. MTBE? Prevents engine knock, makes for cleaner air, let's mandate its use at the federal level. Whoopsie, once it's in the water we can't get it out, and its a carcinogen. Let's kill all of the mosquitos because we find their presence unpleasa…

Perhaps do a pilot test in a limited area and see the impact?

If I recall correctly, that was done in Panama by the canal builders; one of the reasons they were successful was because they wiped out mosquitoes in the region, and protected the workers from malaria.

Their method was to put a bit of gasoline in all of the swamps. The thin layer of gas on the water surface killed the larvae. It probably caused lots of other environmental damage too though, so a different approach would be needed today.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#36

Post by astazangasta »

hibikir wrote: post #15
mikestew wrote: post #5

This is one of those ideas that sounds genius on its face, until it's actually implemented. Kudzu? Grows fast, prevents erosion, let's pay farmers to till it into the top soil. MTBE? Prevents engine knock, makes for cleaner air, let's mandate its use at the federal level. Whoopsie, once it's in the water we can't get it out, and its a carcinogen. Let's kill all of the mosquitos because we find their presence unpleasa…

Mosquitos aren't about unpleasantness though: It is a vector for deadly disease in the tropics. We are talking hundreds of thousands of deaths a year. Now, getting rid of all of them might not be the smartest idea: it carries plenty of risk, but to say that they are just unpleasant is a major understatement.

We should just cure these diseases. Vector control is fucking hard, we've been trying it for a century without really fixing the problem. That isn't likely to change; therapeutic interventions, however, can keep getting better and cheaper.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#37

Post by vermontdevil »

mikestew wrote: post #5

This is one of those ideas that sounds genius on its face, until it's actually implemented. Kudzu? Grows fast, prevents erosion, let's pay farmers to till it into the top soil. MTBE? Prevents engine knock, makes for cleaner air, let's mandate its use at the federal level. Whoopsie, once it's in the water we can't get it out, and its a carcinogen. Let's kill all of the mosquitos because we find their presence unpleasa…

I used to think Kudzu was really bad until I read this:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/true-story-kudz...

Not saying it was a good idea to plant Kudzu but there are far worse invasive plants to deal with.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#38

Post by alwaysdoit »

We've done this lots[1] of[2] times[3] when it threatens agriculture, but when it threatens the lives of poor people in third world countries, suddenly we're worried about the ecosystem?

There will be an environmental impact, but it will be from hundreds of millions of humans not getting malaria and climbing their way out of property, not from the lack of mosquitoes in the ecosystem. It's still a significant problem, but our current solution of "let all the poor people die" is not a good one.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochliomyia_hominivorax

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceratitis_capitata

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastrepha_ludens

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#39

Post by clord »

teraflop wrote: post #14
SubZero wrote: post #11

How many bugs and spiders rely on mosquitoes as part of their diet? Out of all of the ideas in this article, not once was the impact to the biological food chain discussed. We can kill all of the little annoying things, but how many beneficial organisms are being supported by them?

You must have stopped reading part way through: > There’s little evidence, though, that mosquitoes form a crucial link in any food chain, or that their niche could not be filled by something else. When science journalist Janet Fang spun out this thought experiment for Nature in 2010, she concluded that “life would continue as before—or even better.” I arrived at the same answer when I looked into the same question fo…

There will always be experts (and journalists) who can't think of the impact of some change. But I believe tropic cascades are a real thing in food webs, and we can't really know for sure that something will have no impact until we do the thing. If there is one thing we're learning right now, it's that these cascades are real and quite dangerous. Now that this is known, no one should in good conscience set off a possible cascade without knowing something about what might happen.

Humans can improve on nature once they understand the impact of an action well, so I'd get behind a well funded study into what effect getting rid of mosquitoes would have — one with an experimental basis and not just a journalist's thought experiments.

Re: Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes

#40

Post by llamaimperative »

hellbanner wrote: post #7

On reddit, I remember seeing something like "Research assures government that killing mosquitos would have no negative effect on world ecology"... right above another thread titled "Scientists underestimate ecological impact of species destruction"... Do we actually understand Mosquitos role in the planet's eco system?

No, but that isn't even the million dollar question because the answer will never be "yes."

The real question is how certain do we have to be about their role before we decide the gamble is worth it?

In this thread you see wealthy westerners complaining that mosquitos are a nuisance. In many parts of the world they are holocaust-scale killers. It gets to an age old question re: the precautionary principle, and a lot of philosophers have spent a lot of time reasoning about it. No one has a generalizable answer.

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