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The Hedonic Treadmill

happierhuman.com

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Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#61

Post by ZenoArrow »

kidmenot wrote: post #39
maldusiecle wrote: post #18

This is such a terrible argument, even by its own data. For instance: "The good-looking are on average 7% happier than the bad-looking." ...from which it draws the conclusion that being beautiful doesn't make much of a difference. But 7% doesn't seem like a small difference at all. Spending hundreds of hours for a 7% improvement doesn't seem like such a terrible deal to me. Of course it's a bad deal if that's time yo…

And, if I may: what does 7% happier, 20% increase in life satisfaction exactly mean anyway? My 5% might be or feel very different than someone else's. See, I have a hard time with all this self-help stuff. What's so difficult about it that needs hundreds of books and blogs to be expounded? You either want to do something or you don't. Be grateful for what you have and try to improve a little at a time. Remember that…

You're right, quantifying happiness is nonsense, but that doesn't stop people trying. I think it's a reflection of a common mindset that sees science as universally applicable.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#62

Post by npsimons »

maldusiecle wrote: post #18

This is such a terrible argument, even by its own data. For instance: "The good-looking are on average 7% happier than the bad-looking." ...from which it draws the conclusion that being beautiful doesn't make much of a difference. But 7% doesn't seem like a small difference at all. Spending hundreds of hours for a 7% improvement doesn't seem like such a terrible deal to me. Of course it's a bad deal if that's time yo…

> But exercise, for instance, has the benefit of improving your health and creating happiness in its own right.

That and losing weight. I honestly believe that many don't understand the effects of being obese (or even overweight) because they've been that way for so long, they've forgotten what healthy feels like. I for one didn't realize it until I lost the weight and no longer needed a CPAP to sleep through the night.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#63

Post by darawk »

In addition to the other criticisms in the comments,

> The material standard of living of a homeless person in modern-day Manhattan is several dozens of times higher than the wealthiest of kings ten thousand years ago.

That statement is pretty clearly silly and false.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#64

Post by alashley »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #33

I doubt their premises. For example, I've recently moved to another city which made me happier and the effect did not wear off after four months and I don't think it will. As another example, having a significant other versus being alone makes for such a huge difference that it's not ever up to discussion. Maybe if we're restricting our talk to meaningless status symbols (like the mentioned Lexus), then it starts to…

I've been thinking about this lately. The common meme is that people who say "I'll be happy when I do $thing" should try to be happy in the moment rather than looking towards their next goal(s).

I think we always need micro-goals to strive towards. A new job can improve your life, a new partner can improve your life, and even when you find new $thing, there are still goals to work toward there. Like being a better employee or a better partner.

And as you've said, the effect of some changes is long-term at least until you feel a need for growth/expansion again. Everything else outside of moving forward in life is complacency.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#65

Post by WalterSear »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #61
kidmenot wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, if I may: what does 7% happier, 20% increase in life satisfaction exactly mean anyway? My 5% might be or feel very different than someone else's. See, I have a hard time with all this self-help stuff. What's so difficult about it that needs hundreds of books and blogs to be expounded? You either want to do something or you don't. Be grateful for what you have and try to improve a little at a time. Remember that…

You're right, quantifying happiness is nonsense, but that doesn't stop people trying. I think it's a reflection of a common mindset that sees science as universally applicable.

It is. We just don't have the right science yet.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#66

Post by SonicSoul »

The hundreds of hours of dieting, going to the gym, and putting on make-up (or flexing, for men) increase happiness by a colossal 7%.

nope nope nope

exercising does much more than make you look jacked at the club. It makes your brain release endorphins for immediate mood improvement, and also improves thinking, sleep, and overall well being. The happiest I've felt in my life is when exercising regularly. Actually exercising and diet are probably _the most_ influential on our chemistry which in turn influences mood and happiness.

also not sure why all these things were lumped in together and how they could possibly calculate the 7% increase considering there is such a wide range of diets and exercise plans. Seems hyperbolic

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#67

Post by kbenson »

Simp wrote: post #53
anotherhacker wrote: post #42

The author is flat out wrong. The Hedonic Treadmill has been disproven. Moreover, the author seems to be conflating the concept of the treadmill, with adaptation. The former denotes the subject returns to the original state. The latter recognizes that while we become accustomed to new things, we still improve in happiness. The author is also misquoting, or misunderstanding, Kahneman. Kahneman isn't talking at all abo…

>'Kahneman tried to explain the hedonic treadmill via with his own aspiration treadmill. He claims that he not only failed, but the data were opposite to his hypothesis.' https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10056 Uh... what that Edge article you are linking shows is that 'experienced happiness' which he thought would be a better measurement of happiness than life satisfaction is even more immune to your life circums…

> This was the first of many such findings: income, marital status and education all influence experienced happiness less than satisfaction, and we could show that the difference is not a statistical artifact.

Is that saying affect of (income, marital status and education) on experienced happiness affect of (income, marital status and education) on satisfaction, or is it saying affect of (income, marital status and education) on experienced happiness affect of (satisfaction) on experienced happiness ?

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#68

Post by and-can »

SonicSoul wrote: post #66

The hundreds of hours of dieting, going to the gym, and putting on make-up (or flexing, for men) increase happiness by a colossal 7%. nope nope nope exercising does much more than make you look jacked at the club. It makes your brain release endorphins for immediate mood improvement, and also improves thinking, sleep, and overall well being. The happiest I've felt in my life is when exercising regularly. Actually exe…

And even then, is 7% supposed to be a little or a lot? They say "hundreds of hours of dieting & exercising" but really that only affects an hour a day, maybe? I'd say that if I could spend 1 hour a day and get a 7% gain in happiness, it probably is worth it.

And perhaps there are other activities that require 1 hour that result in a 7% increase. Say: reading, socializing, writing. Then you've got 4 hours a day and get a 1.07^4 = 1.31 or 31% increase in happiness.

Isn't that GOOD? I'd say that's AWESOME.

Re: The Hedonic Treadmill

#69

Post by ChrisDutrow »

neogodless wrote: post #6

"The material standard of living of a homeless person in modern-day Manhattan is several dozens of times higher than the wealthiest of kings ten thousand years ago." Can someone explain to me what their definition of "standard of living" is in this context? I get that they might have access to cleaner water, but surely easy access to food prepared for you and having a roof over your head in a snowstorm would sound re…

Yeah, I can't see how that could possibly be true. Kings would have had access to huge amounts of man power. People to build their castles and supply them with food.

I suppose you could argue that the homeless person might have better access to healthcare. But I still think the author's statement is very false.

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