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Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

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Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#491

Post by wINfo »

There's an irrational belief system at hardware companies about Windows that clouds their logic and leads to a sense of separation anxiety. Intel lost the opportunity to get a lead in mobile because they viewed the Linux/UNIX client device category as a side business rather than making it their core platform. They continued to invest substantial resources in supporting Windows 8 and Windows 10 despite the obvious reality that Windows is a dead-end platform with no growth prospects. It isn't just Intel but even nVidia/AMD lost the mobile space for this same reason, too much Windows not enough Linux/UNIX.

The Windows ecosystem has become corrosive to any industry or company it touches. We now see the end results of supporting a closed-source legacy platform is 12,000 jobs at Intel due to the lack of excitement and innovation in the PC space. Perhaps Linux will revive the PC market but in the meantime Intel and their peers at nVidia/AMD have done little to make that a reality in the mainstream sense.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#492

Post by OliverJones »

For years Intel got to ride the rocketship of routine chip-density doubling. For years the new chips were so much superior to the old ones that it paid to replace them and the machines into which they were built.

Now, not so much. I can put a SSD and more RAM in my eight-year-old laptop and make it work just about as well as a new one.

I can switch off the old HP DL380/G5 boxes in my colo, hand them over to the steel recycling guy, move the data to some cloud service, and come out ahead electricity bill vs. cloud bill. I'm not buying many processor chips anymore. Neither is anybody else, except maybe the cloud services. And their bargaining power makes Dell and HP look like the guys in the white-box computer shop down the street.

The processor chip rocket ship has entered orbit; its occupants are now in microgravity. Some other rocket ship will be the next big ride.

It's too bad those folks are out of work. It's too bad plutocrats always behave as if les bontemps rouleront toujours.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#493

Post by knicholes »

purplelobster wrote: post #446
tma-1 wrote: post #39

So Intel is cutting 11% of its workforce, Goldman Sachs just reported a 56% drop in profits, Morgan Stanley had a 50% drop in profits, Netflix missed subscriber growth estimates etc... yet, the Dow just hit a 9-Month high, and the S&P500 is now above 2100. The whole market is overvalued, not just the tech unicorns.

I love it when people make doom and gloom predictions. If you are so convinced, put your money where your mouth is. Short the S&P500 with everything you've got and post a screen shot here.

I've sold all of my stocks and RSUs in anticipation of a crash.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#494

Post by Nullabillity »

bduerst wrote: post #287
Nullabillity wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, mobile hasn't figured out a good way to take over the workspace. Some of the tablet/laptop hybrids are getting closer. There already is a relatively mobile tablet/desktop hybrid that works pretty great for both consumption and getting work done. It's called a laptop. > As for entertainment though, are you watching Youtube extensively on your desktop? Yes. I have a phone, a tablet, a desktop, and a laptop. The…

Laptops typically aren't considered mobile devices (if we're being pedantic). Try running mobile apps on your laptop. And yes, mobile devices have taken away entertainment share from the desktop as well as televisions.

Sure, say portable if that makes you happier. Not that it matters though, mobile programs are the ones trying to catch up to desktop programs, not the other way around.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#495

Post by mathattack »

usaar333 wrote: post #395
partiallypro wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GAAP P/E of the S&P is now at 24.28, that's near, if not, a record high. That's bad. It's very overvalued historically. Banking stocks are doing badly because interest rates are so low across the curve that they can't make money from the spread. But even at that, they are overvalued along with various momentum stocks like Tesla, Netflix (which we saw implode yesterday.)

The high P/E is driven by interest rates being low. One can argue the way to judge stocks value is not by P/E but by E/P relative to interest rates; that is whether their excess return relative to risk-free assets is justified by their risk. Interest rates remain 5% below their long-term historical average, which can justify E/P going up significantly. Currently stocks offer a 3.5% return over some classes of t-bonds…

This is very true. It's earning yield versus fixed income yield that matters most. If one is out of whack with the other, then there there is arbitrage. (All things equal, if there's a much better yield in equities, then people will move money from bonds to equities, or vice versa)

The current danger is that both will move down at the same time, and then where should one invest?

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#496

Post by forgetsusername »

tostitos1979 wrote: post #485
forgetsusername wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> meaning companies can still take on debt to buy back their stock Please explain the problem here. You're acting like there's some big deception imposed on the public due to companies choosing to return capital to shareholders via one specific mechanism. As if somehow they're buying back stock and "fooling" people into thinking they're making more money or something, and stock prices are irrationally rising. The buy…

Shorting a stock isn't always practical. Stock buybacks can be deceptive if a company buys back stocks with debt and doesn't have proper cashflow to pay it off. Non-technical investors see the stock going up and keep piling more cash in. If you think markets are perfect, you have a lot to learn my friend.

>Shorting a stock isn't always practical.

Nor is it remotely the only way to assume a bearish position.

>Stock buybacks can be deceptive if a company buys back stocks with debt and doesn't have proper cashflow to pay it off.

You can't tell the cash flow and debt levels from the financial reporting? You don't account for this in your valuation? Where is the deception? Report it to the SEC.

>Non-technical investors see the stock going up and keep piling more cash in.

An equivalent number of people are "pulling cash out". A stock trade is just that: a trade. Again, what makes you a better judge of the "correct" price than those actually making the deal?

>If you think markets are perfect, you have a lot to learn my friend

Not sure where that comes from, but you're right, I do have more to learn. That said, it looks like I'm a few levels up on you (and far less confident in my ability to predict anything).

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#497

Post by WayneBro »

wINfo wrote: post #491

There's an irrational belief system at hardware companies about Windows that clouds their logic and leads to a sense of separation anxiety. Intel lost the opportunity to get a lead in mobile because they viewed the Linux/UNIX client device category as a side business rather than making it their core platform. They continued to invest substantial resources in supporting Windows 8 and Windows 10 despite the obvious rea…

Every single thing you said is complete hogwash and you have provided zero evidence to backup any of your poorly formed opinions.

To begin with, Intel didn't lose an opportunity to get a lead in mobile because of their views on Linux/UNIX. None of the players today have a "lead" in mobile because of Unix. They have a lead because of the touch-based front-end. It wouldn't have mattered what that was running on.

Furthermore, Windows is responsible for creating numerous multi-billion dollar industries and Windows obviously holds a ton of value for businesses that Linux can't even compete with. That's why just about every business runs Windows and not Linux.

The willfully obliviousness of nix fanboys like you is boring.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#498

Post by CydeWeys »

majewsky wrote: post #432
CydeWeys wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel screwed up and didn't become a major player in the mobile market. They could have, because they are still the world's best chip maker, but they didn't. The mobile market is experiencing the most growth and also the shortest product lifetimes. I still get a new phone every 1-2 years because the upgrades are worth it, but my laptop needs upgrades less often, and my desktop less often than that. Mobile phone proce…

> I still get a new phone every 1-2 years because the upgrades are worth it Really? About the only reason why I'm getting a new phone every so often is when the old one stops being updated. (My Nexus 4 lasted 3 years, and it would have done another year.) Planned obsolescence, if you want.

The phone market is still rapidly evolving. For instance, I have a Nexus 5X right now. The fingerprint scanner on it alone is worth it. It was an afterthought to me when I got the phone, but now it's the single most important feature on the phone to me. The camera is also better than anything phone camera I've had before.

Also, I play some games on my phone, and having better hardware helps a lot with that.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#499

Post by teh_klev »

OliverJones wrote: post #492

For years Intel got to ride the rocketship of routine chip-density doubling. For years the new chips were so much superior to the old ones that it paid to replace them and the machines into which they were built. Now, not so much. I can put a SSD and more RAM in my eight-year-old laptop and make it work just about as well as a new one. I can switch off the old HP DL380/G5 boxes in my colo, hand them over to the steel…

> I can put a SSD and more RAM in my eight-year-old laptop and make it work just about as well as a new one.

I did exactly that with an old i3 based all-in-one Sony Vaio PC my dad handed down to me. It previously had a 3.5" 5400rpm spinner and 4GB of RAM and would take a month of Sundays to boot. I installed a 250GB SSD and another 4GB of RAM and it totally transformed the machine. All it cost was GBP62.00 (I got an amazing Black Friday deal on both SSD and memory). Hell, the thing can even run Visual Studio 2015 and a couple of CentOS VM's on Virtual Box and still feel quite responsive.

Re: Intel to Cut 12,000 Jobs, Forecast Misses Amid PC Blight

#500

Post by spacecowboy_lon »

coldtea wrote: post #251
cheald wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless these folks had degrees in Working At Intel, losing a job is not the same as becoming permanently unemployable. Job loss sucks. But it's pretty hyperbolic to say it's destroying peoples' lives. Particularly for skilled workers, finding a new job isn't all that far out.

> Unless these folks had degrees in Working At Intel, losing a job is not the same as becoming permanently unemployable. A 50 year old Intel employee might find it quite difficult to get a new job any time soon. Not to mention that where they live they'll have some other thousands ex-colleagues recently fired looking for similar type of jobs. We're talking about thousands of people -- few of them will be highly sough…

That depends if you can apply for redundancy you can lose the good people.

Most of the UK's mobile industry was staffed by Ex Cellnet/BT who took Redundancy with some massive TAX free payouts - Senior Guys could get 5 figure payoffs and an extra 6 years on your pension.

The head of Vodafone in the UK was an example and as soem one said at his level they threw in a gold plated wheelbarrow for you to take your cash away in.

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