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EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

reuters.com

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Re: EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

#31

Post by ricw »

NiKMic wrote: post #18

I'm not sure if I am understanding it well. Does the EU have an issue with Google Chrome coming pre-installed with Android? In that case, shouldn't Microsoft face the same penalties since IE/Edge comes pre-installed on the Windows OS? I believe that these pre-installed apps can't be uninstalled (because it might happen that you end up with no browsers on your phone), but would making the app uninstallable solve this…

The difference is the monopoly that Google has obtained in Europe with more than 80% market share. Similar to how Microsoft was fined for making the internet explorer the default on their platform and thereby dominating the market (windows) a decade ago, Google is likely going to be fined and forced to open their monopolistic platform to fairer competition.

The thinking behind this is that you can't have terms that prohibit competition when you are the monopoly. If you do, you need to accept competition. In a way it's because Google has been too successful in Europe. It'll be interesting to see how the EU thinks a fairer market can be obtained..

Re: EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

#32

Post by kyrra »

NiKMic wrote: post #18

I'm not sure if I am understanding it well. Does the EU have an issue with Google Chrome coming pre-installed with Android? In that case, shouldn't Microsoft face the same penalties since IE/Edge comes pre-installed on the Windows OS? I believe that these pre-installed apps can't be uninstalled (because it might happen that you end up with no browsers on your phone), but would making the app uninstallable solve this…

Details are in the EU's press release: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-1492_en.htm

The key points:

> requiring manufacturers to pre-install Google Search and Google's Chrome browser and requiring them to set Google Search as default search service on their devices, as a condition to license certain Google proprietary apps;

> preventing manufacturers from selling smart mobile devices running on competing operating systems based on the Android open source code;

> giving financial incentives to manufacturers and mobile network operators on condition that they exclusively pre-install Google Search on their devices.

Re: EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

#33

Post by amelius »

dublinben wrote: post #27
NiKMic wrote: post #18

I'm not sure if I am understanding it well. Does the EU have an issue with Google Chrome coming pre-installed with Android? In that case, shouldn't Microsoft face the same penalties since IE/Edge comes pre-installed on the Windows OS? I believe that these pre-installed apps can't be uninstalled (because it might happen that you end up with no browsers on your phone), but would making the app uninstallable solve this…

Microsoft already faced an antitrust suit about this issue several years ago. It resulted in the mandatory browser choice ballot when first starting a new Windows system.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu

Can't every app be considered a "browser" nowadays? I mean, every app contacts the internet, and displays results based on data from the internet.

I'm not sure if it is fair to draw the line at web browsers that render HTML.

Re: EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

#35

Post by blablablame »

jbob2000 wrote: post #4

Totally implausible scenario, but what would happen if Google were to say "to hell with this" and just completely pull out of the EU? Like full-stop, nothing Google touching the EU. Would there be riots? Would governments try to force Google back? Like, are they so essential to digital life that a complete withdrawal would cause some amount of chaos? And if that's the case, isn't an antitrust suit a bit disingenuous?…

Probably seeing the stock lose more than half of it's value by pulling from the biggest market it operates in would see Google reverting their stance quickly.

Also, most likely, you would see bing+other local search engines gain traction, same for mail, maps, etc. Lets not forget, that a lot (majority?) of google search users use whatever the search engine is by default on their browsers and aren't really concerned about using google per se. Except search, a lot of folks where I live don't use google products (and if I switched their search engine they probably wouldn't notice that much except for saying it looks different)

Re: EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

#36

Post by kuschku »

The actual issue the EC argues against – counter to many comments here – are the compatibility test suite issues.

If you want to sell at least one phone with the play store, all your other phones have to come with it, too.

You can’t just sell 50% with Kindle-Android, and 50% with Google Android.

This is severely hurting innovation and leads to an even larger monopoly.

Re: EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

#37

Post by Mikeb85 »

I'm curious exactly how they figure Google is abusing their position, when you can change all the default apps and search to anything you want, and manufacturers can create a fork and do anything they want with it (witness Ubuntu Phone, Firefox OS, Cyanogenmod, Amazon Kindle Fire OS or whatever it's called, etc...). All Google is requiring is certain conditions to be able to call it 'Android', not unlike Mozilla and Firefox branding.

Re: EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

#38

Post by kuschku »

blablablame wrote: post #35
jbob2000 wrote: post #4

Totally implausible scenario, but what would happen if Google were to say "to hell with this" and just completely pull out of the EU? Like full-stop, nothing Google touching the EU. Would there be riots? Would governments try to force Google back? Like, are they so essential to digital life that a complete withdrawal would cause some amount of chaos? And if that's the case, isn't an antitrust suit a bit disingenuous?…

Probably seeing the stock lose more than half of it's value by pulling from the biggest market it operates in would see Google reverting their stance quickly. Also, most likely, you would see bing+other local search engines gain traction, same for mail, maps, etc. Lets not forget, that a lot (majority?) of google search users use whatever the search engine is by default on their browsers and aren't really concerned a…

Actually, a lot of people already use bing maps instead of Google maps because of poor quality of Google maps in several European markets.

In my city in northern Germany (300k population), Google hasn’t updated anything since 2004. Refuses to integrate transit, although transit data is available in the requested format.

While Bing and Here maps both have data from last month, with 3D imagery, and realtime transit data. Of course it’s easy to choose which maps app one will use.

And all the nice AI features Google has over Bing & Co – like Google Now’s "you have to go 5min earlier to work because of a traffic jam" obviously don’t work without realtime transit and up-to-date maps data.

Re: EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

#39

Post by kuschku »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #37

I'm curious exactly how they figure Google is abusing their position, when you can change all the default apps and search to anything you want, and manufacturers can create a fork and do anything they want with it (witness Ubuntu Phone, Firefox OS, Cyanogenmod, Amazon Kindle Fire OS or whatever it's called, etc...). All Google is requiring is certain conditions to be able to call it 'Android', not unlike Mozilla and…

> and manufacturers can create a fork and do anything they want with it

That’s exactly what Google prohibits.

If you want to sell one or two phones with the Play Store, all your other phones have to adhere to Google’s rules, too.

You can’t ship 50 phones with Play Store and 50 phones with Kindle-Android.

Amazon couldn’t use any of the major OEMs for building their Kindle devices for this same reason.

Re: EU hits Google with second antitrust charge

#40

Post by blablablame »

kuschku wrote: post #38
blablablame wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably seeing the stock lose more than half of it's value by pulling from the biggest market it operates in would see Google reverting their stance quickly. Also, most likely, you would see bing+other local search engines gain traction, same for mail, maps, etc. Lets not forget, that a lot (majority?) of google search users use whatever the search engine is by default on their browsers and aren't really concerned a…

Actually, a lot of people already use bing maps instead of Google maps because of poor quality of Google maps in several European markets. In my city in northern Germany (300k population), Google hasn’t updated anything since 2004. Refuses to integrate transit, although transit data is available in the requested format. While Bing and Here maps both have data from last month, with 3D imagery, and realtime transit dat…

Same here. Bing imagery is more current. Apple maps has traffic information. Google maps has.... well.... its slow... that is pretty much it.
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