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NYC vs Silicon Valley

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Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#21

Post by pw0ncakes »

sak84 wrote: post #15
pw0ncakes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York will succeed as a startup hub if the rents come down fast enough. Right now, they're still too high; you pretty much have to work a Wall Street job or be parentally supported to live here, and this is a problem.

Not true, you can find cheap places to live, if you're willing to live outside Manhattan. Jersey City, Queens, BK, are all viable options for the scrappy founder.

I agree, but it's a pain in the ass to get into the city from those places.

Brooklyn Heights is close to Manhattan and beautiful-- probably one of the nicest neighborhoods in New York-- but it's almost as expensive as living on the island. There are also affordable, beautiful places in the outer boroughs, but an hour's commute away.

Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#22

Post by pw0ncakes »

mtalantikite wrote: post #16
pw0ncakes wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technological problems that you work on in a hedge fund are less interesting than those you do in a startup. On the other hand, making actual money has benefits.

I don't know, I disagree that they're not solving really interesting problems. My first jobs out of college were at hedge funds, pretty much by accident, and I got the chance to work with a ton of really smart people -- many of whom were math or engineering PhDs -- in a very challenging environment. One two-person team I got to work with was doing something resembling stat-arb, and was pushing about $250 million of t…

Fair point. At a quant hedge fund, you do get to work with some awesome people, and you learn a lot from after-work conversations.

Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#23

Post by char »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #9
hypermatt wrote: post #5

I don't it helps that most startups here in NYC are pretty lame, ripoffs of yelp or really weak ideas. I have been very unimpressed and stayed away from both startups and wall st.

I work for a startup in New York. We have a really cool idea, but raising money has been a bitch and a half. We've decided to bypass the VCs almost entirely and focus on customers.

In my opinion, this is exactly what you should do! Build a really great product and perhaps even become profitable on your own before you try to take on capital.

Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#24

Post by sak84 »

pw0ncakes wrote: post #21
sak84 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true, you can find cheap places to live, if you're willing to live outside Manhattan. Jersey City, Queens, BK, are all viable options for the scrappy founder.

I agree, but it's a pain in the ass to get into the city from those places. Brooklyn Heights is close to Manhattan and beautiful-- probably one of the nicest neighborhoods in New York-- but it's almost as expensive as living on the island. There are also affordable, beautiful places in the outer boroughs, but an hour's commute away.

Again, not true. Have you lived in Astoria (N train to Manhattan in half hour), Fort Greene (so many choices and 15 min to manhattan), Jersey City (path train to manhattan in less than half hour).

Brooklyn Heights is a terrible example. It's where the executives who work across the water live. Of course that is going to be super expensive.

There are lots of places that you can find, that are comparable to SF & Boston, and sometimes cheaper. Let me know if you need help here!

Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#25

Post by mtalantikite »

sak84 wrote: post #15
pw0ncakes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York will succeed as a startup hub if the rents come down fast enough. Right now, they're still too high; you pretty much have to work a Wall Street job or be parentally supported to live here, and this is a problem.

Not true, you can find cheap places to live, if you're willing to live outside Manhattan. Jersey City, Queens, BK, are all viable options for the scrappy founder.

Brownstone Brooklyn isn't exactly cheap -- my place is considered a steal here in Park Slope, but it's still an eyebrow raising amount of money.

Places like Prospect Heights, Crown Heights, and Clinton Hill are gentrifying quickly, and rents are getting up near the $2k month for a 1 bedroom mark. It's just not sustainable.

Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#26

Post by bwh2 »

sak84 wrote: post #24
pw0ncakes wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but it's a pain in the ass to get into the city from those places. Brooklyn Heights is close to Manhattan and beautiful-- probably one of the nicest neighborhoods in New York-- but it's almost as expensive as living on the island. There are also affordable, beautiful places in the outer boroughs, but an hour's commute away.

Again, not true. Have you lived in Astoria (N train to Manhattan in half hour), Fort Greene (so many choices and 15 min to manhattan), Jersey City (path train to manhattan in less than half hour). Brooklyn Heights is a terrible example. It's where the executives who work across the water live. Of course that is going to be super expensive. There are lots of places that you can find, that are comparable to SF & Boston…

Just curious, do you live and/or work in NYC? I find the rent (even in places like Astoria and Fort Greene) to be unreasonable, especially once you consider broker's fees.

The best values IMO are in the NJ suburbs, where you can catch a 40 min direct train into Penn Station, but pay half the rent of Manhattan, Hoboken, Astoria, etc. But that's obviously not quite as sexy and appealing.

I think a point everyone's missing is that even if you both live and work in Manhattan, you could have a 45 minute commute each way.

Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#27

Post by eirene »

Sorry to hear about your feelings re: Boston. I really enjoyed it during my trip this week and briefly considered moving as FC has an office in Cambridge.

I do, however, feel your ecosystem pain. NYC is such a money town, and while there are pockets of sun, air, & water here and there, they don't instantiate enough to be completely nourishing.

That said, culture evolves and history re-writes itself with every passing second. Given time, I can see the city reaching her potential as a startup hub; she will make her inexorable way forward. Certainly it's time that neither you nor I can afford to let slip by, but if it's not people like you and I (& other like-minded folks) who help move this city forward, people who give a damn and follow passion up with action, who's it going to be?

I realize that you've got to put your company first, but the two (help NYC/grow company) aren't mutually exclusive. For instance Mouse.org -- I'll be chatting with them soon, & if SpeakerText is still in town, would love to place a capable high school intern from one of their squads with you.

We (NYC entrepreneurs & investors alike) might make more progress if we could set aside more than a couple hours a month to work concertedly on building culture and making history.

Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#28

Post by dgallagher »

I hate Boston. Would never live there. So ignoring that city, where are you going to find, ohh, let's say Speech Engineers?

Why hate Boston? I would disagree. Boston's a great city to live in. It's much smaller than NYC so you can walk from one end to the other, is a lot more scenic, and my favorite part of all is that it isn't gritty/dirty like NYC is (unless you head out to Boston's outskirts like Ashland/Brighton/Somerville). Whenever I've visited NYC, all of the pretty parts (outside of Central Park) were tucked away in some place most people can't afford. Being rich in NYC looks like fun, but most people aren't rich.

NYC feels like an extension of an office cubicle to me. Crammed buildings. "Rat Race" economics in full effect. No nature, no beauty. You're insulated inside a sea of cement and brick. The only thing that's missing are the metal bars.

IMHO of course. Boston isn't perfect either, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a startup hub. Great universities, plenty of talented people available. No, it's not Silicon Valley, but an admirable alternative none-the-less. NYC certainly is too, regardless if I personally like it or not.

Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#29

Post by char »

Having lived in both NYC and the Bay Area for extended periods of time, I would say that at least in terms of rent and location, that there are many more options for running a start-up cheaply in the Bay Area. You might be able to find a decent deal on housing in, say, Astoria, but if you look in Silicon Valley, Berkeley, Oakland, or even certain areas of SF, you'll find many cheaper options that give you twice the space and are just as conveniently located.

Re: NYC vs Silicon Valley

#30

Post by MediaSquirrel »

dgallagher wrote: post #28

I hate Boston. Would never live there. So ignoring that city, where are you going to find, ohh, let's say Speech Engineers? Why hate Boston? I would disagree. Boston's a great city to live in. It's much smaller than NYC so you can walk from one end to the other, is a lot more scenic, and my favorite part of all is that it isn't gritty/dirty like NYC is (unless you head out to Boston's outskirts like Ashland/Brighton/…

Boston is f'ing cold. And I'm from SoCal. Plus, it's a bit more blue-blooded. And honestly, I love the NYC grit. Big selling point for me.
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