How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm • Hacker News Board

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#11

Post by pj_mukh » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:31 AM UTC

petewailes wrote: post #3

I suspect a large part of this is down to 1. People defaulting to the nuclear option constantly, in their reactions, and 2. People not wanting to accept that some issues are complex, and that a blanket approach doesn't work. The latter of these is the real issue. People love being outraged over the lack of women in STEM fields, and how those that are are treated, but few people talk about the lack of men in teaching…

I think you're right about most of this, especially the fact that news media coverage is "bite-sized" and incomprehensive.

But, I'd like to point out that the lack of women in STEM fields is about decision-making power and not necessarily equity. Women aren't fighting for equity in garbage collection jobs either.

If women are to have equal say on the goings-on's of society they need to partake in the upper echelons of power equally (Government, Corporate Leadership, STEM positions etc.).

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#12

Post by ansible » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:32 AM UTC

They talk about the influence of academics, and yet we (as a people) seem to successfully ignore things like global warming... I don't know if that explains it.

We have, indeed, become a nation of wimps, with little common sense. We fear now, much more than we used to. When I was a kid, we feared the red menace (Communism), but that didn't stop us from moving forward, or adhering to our ideals. Our independent spirit as a people.

I don't understand what is happening to us, but I think what they are talking about in the article is a reaction to the shift in public attitudes, not the cause of it.

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#13

Post by EliRivers » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:32 AM UTC

petewailes wrote: post #3

I suspect a large part of this is down to 1. People defaulting to the nuclear option constantly, in their reactions, and 2. People not wanting to accept that some issues are complex, and that a blanket approach doesn't work. The latter of these is the real issue. People love being outraged over the lack of women in STEM fields, and how those that are are treated, but few people talk about the lack of men in teaching…

While I don't disagree with the general thrust of your argument, as an aside, the lack of men in nursing roles (and teaching, especially to younger children) is seen as a problem and when you spend time in the nursing or teaching community it comes up a lot. Campaigns to attract more men into these professions have been running for a long time.

While I'm here, speaking as a townie, I don't see any complexity in the fox hunting issue. If it's vermin that needs to be controlled, kill it. Fine. But to spend a day getting pleasure out of chasing it down with a pack of dogs? That's not the same question at all.

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#14

Post by yarou » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:39 AM UTC

We are headed to a dystopian state so quickly it's not even remotely funny anymore. The only thing I will say is resist them - resist the status quo and fight back against authority.

We can fight back with tools like cryptocurrency, or even secure messaging apps like Signal (and though end-to-end encryption is heavily criticized on here, it's a start). We can collectively become hackers that dismantle the corrupt institutions that have become so heavily entrenched in our society by engaging in these small initiatives.

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#15

Post by yarou » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:41 AM UTC

apalmer wrote: post #10

Shivetya wrote: post #4

a tyranny of the minority backed up by politicians, government appointees, and judges, all who realize their power by separating people into groups to play off each other. Each new victim class further increases the power of government, the loss of privacy, and worse the loss of community and seeds of distrust and anger are set to drive people into different camps. when the individual becomes so important that commun…

This seems to be a commonly expressed concept, the idea that in large this phenomenon is strongly either caused or encouraged by a 'conspiracy' of the government.

How about multinational corporations that answer to nobody and are staffed by the top psychologists in the world to subtly manipulate the masses? Is that a "conspiracy" in your eyes or merely reality?

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#16

Post by afarrell » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:43 AM UTC

sho wrote: post #9

afarrell wrote: post #2

> like saying the word “fútbol” instead of soccer Hispanic folks: Is this in fact a thing that feels alienating to you? If so, would you be willing to explain why? It is the first time I've heard about it so I'd just like to confirm that Conor Friedersdorf is referring to a real thing.

The author appears to be referring to a previous piece: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise...

Huh. That email exchange is actually a pretty good example of concept creep as applied to the concept of cultural appropriation.

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#17

Post by jules » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:45 AM UTC

pj_mukh wrote: post #11

petewailes wrote: post #3

I suspect a large part of this is down to 1. People defaulting to the nuclear option constantly, in their reactions, and 2. People not wanting to accept that some issues are complex, and that a blanket approach doesn't work. The latter of these is the real issue. People love being outraged over the lack of women in STEM fields, and how those that are are treated, but few people talk about the lack of men in teaching…

I think you're right about most of this, especially the fact that news media coverage is "bite-sized" and incomprehensive. But, I'd like to point out that the lack of women in STEM fields is about decision-making power and not necessarily equity. Women aren't fighting for equity in garbage collection jobs either. If women are to have equal say on the goings-on's of society they need to partake in the upper echelons o…

I think this is the difference between a collectivist and individualist point of view. You can view women as a group or tribe, competing against other groups or tribes, or you can view each person as an individual with one of the characteristics being gender. The last sentence of your comment is from a collectivist point of view. I don't think this view is helpful. One woman isn't really helped by another woman being in the government. What matters is that each individual has equal opportunity regardless of characteristics such as gender that are not directly relevant to the position. The tribal point of view does the opposite: rather than de-emphasising characteristics irrelevant to the situation at hand, it amps up those characteristics in a tribal us-vs-them conflict situation. Complaining that there aren't enough women in STEM seems to me as silly as complaining that there aren't enough people with red hair in STEM. What we should strive for is a world where each individual has the same opportunity based on their merits regardless of irrelevant characteristics, not a world with an elaborate system of conflicting tribes that lobby top-down control to ensure that their tribe gets an equal number of tribes(wo)men in prestigious positions.

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#18

Post by vinceguidry » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:45 AM UTC

I look at this as a sign of society evolving. Subtle emotional traumas exist, micro-aggressions exist. Way more things are harmful to children than we are really aware of. Mental health issues scale smoothly from 'nonexistent' to 'makes you completely nonfunctional' and can't be easily separated from 'ordinary' personality.

Society was not-so-blissfully unaware of these aspects of life, this is the process of coming to awareness. You overreact out of confusion at first, but eventually you figure it out and move on to the next lesson. It's how society works, you think they didn't have breathless articles in the '50's bemoaning both the fears of the day and the overreactions to those fears?

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#19

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:47 AM UTC

ansible wrote: post #12

They talk about the influence of academics, and yet we (as a people) seem to successfully ignore things like global warming... I don't know if that explains it. We have, indeed, become a nation of wimps, with little common sense. We fear now, much more than we used to. When I was a kid, we feared the red menace (Communism), but that didn't stop us from moving forward, or adhering to our ideals. Our independent spirit…

McCarthyism happened during a red scare. Fortunately things moved forward, but things weren't very ideal for a minute there.

Re: How Americans Became So Sensitive to Harm

#20

Post by circlefavshape » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 11:47 AM UTC

pj_mukh wrote: post #11

petewailes wrote: post #3

I suspect a large part of this is down to 1. People defaulting to the nuclear option constantly, in their reactions, and 2. People not wanting to accept that some issues are complex, and that a blanket approach doesn't work. The latter of these is the real issue. People love being outraged over the lack of women in STEM fields, and how those that are are treated, but few people talk about the lack of men in teaching…

I think you're right about most of this, especially the fact that news media coverage is "bite-sized" and incomprehensive. But, I'd like to point out that the lack of women in STEM fields is about decision-making power and not necessarily equity. Women aren't fighting for equity in garbage collection jobs either. If women are to have equal say on the goings-on's of society they need to partake in the upper echelons o…

> If women are to have equal say on the goings-on's of society they need to partake in the upper echelons of power equally (Government, Corporate Leadership, STEM positions etc.)

Aha! Now I understand the arguments better.