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Curing Our Slack Addiction

blog.agilebits.com

91–100 of 187 posts

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#91
post #80

Off-topic, but: AgileBits is one of my favorite companies ever. - Fantastic product - … which genuinely helps people - … which has evolved and matured in an impeccable manner - … which has, as far as I’m aware, never failed critically (no data loss or security breaches – hell, they are so proactive that 1Password saves multiple DB backups for you just in case they eventually mess up) - … which sports good and native…

> Didn’t shut the company down after 2, 3, 4, or 10 years just because they weren’t on track to be a billion dollar company in the next few quarters

Who has ever shut down a company for that reason? Typically startups die when they run out of money.

Other than that I agree with you: they seem admirably humble and impressively reliable.

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#92
The lack of threading is what really kills the usefulness of Slack. This is why we settled on Flowdock in our company.

If you don't have threading, you lose the one best feature of those new chat solutions, the single advantage they have over decades-old IRC: conversations at least slightly detached from time. On Slack, you have to be there all the time in order not to miss things or to participate in just about any conversation. If you aren't, soon it will be too late and no one will know what you're replying to.

As for other advantages, I noticed that one of the biggest uses is file exchange. If there was another simple way to just drag&drop a file somewhere and have people access it, those chat apps would see less use. But there isn't.

I haven't seen the bad effects in our company. Perhaps they occur at larger company sizes.

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#93
post #75

Slack does a good job overall, but I'm glad to see articles like this one challenging the enthusiasm that they've seen of late. I'm starting to share the article's opinion that Slack encourages unthoughtful communication. I do wish the author had spent a little time pointing out some specific product decisions that lead to the kinds of problematic communication they were seeing. For example, basic product choices lik…

I have a hard time agreeing that "Slack's a far sight better than email."

The lack of threading and context (mentioned in AB's writeup) means you have to maintain a lot of state (and keep up to date) in order to get any value. That defeats the point of having automation!

For good or ill, the 40+ year history of mail means there are various tools and conventions that allow your computer to do part of the work for you.

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many IRC channels are archived and the archives are searchable, so the information is not necessarily lost.

Archives are a start, but the problem is most channels are not indexed. There is no "google for irc" of sorts. Even if the archives are searchable (the searches generally suck in the first place), who's going to know to go into this specific archive, for this specific channel, and search for this particular query? As someone who was interested in this a few years ago: This is still an open problem for someone to solv…

Here's a solution, e.g. for the #rust channel: https://botbot.me/mozilla/rust/

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#95
I was previously working in a company that used Flowdock[0]. Current place uses Slack and I've noticed that there are multiple things bothering me.

Biggest complain for me is that the Slack UI gives too much weight on the fact that someone has talked on a channel. This makes me feel like I should be reading that, even though it might not have anything to do with me. This creates a whack-a-mole situation where I end up constantly jumping between all channels so that I wont miss anything.

Another thing that I really liked on Flowdock was that discussions had separate threads. Especially on channels that weren't your main focus but instead you were invited to in order to discuss some specific thing you could follow just the discussion about that thing and everything else can be filtered away. This also makes it easy to know what any comment is about, since you can easily read the whole discussion thread without having to skim through the whole channel. This works great even if the messages have days or weeks between them. (Instead of having just the direct mention as a point of interest you end up following the thread that you were mentioned on and you might keep following it for longer time, even after the highlight is weeks old)

There was a major annoyance with Flowdock as well. At least when I was using it there wasn't a search that covered all channels. You had to either know what channel the thing you were searching on had happened or you had to one by one go through all channels and do a search on each one of them separately.

Main point here is that Slack fails to keep my attention on the things that are relevant to me and instead seems to suggest that everything is critical to me. This makes it feel like addiction instead of a tool that would be useful all the time.

[0] https://www.flowdock.com/

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#96
post #80

Off-topic, but: AgileBits is one of my favorite companies ever. - Fantastic product - … which genuinely helps people - … which has evolved and matured in an impeccable manner - … which has, as far as I’m aware, never failed critically (no data loss or security breaches – hell, they are so proactive that 1Password saves multiple DB backups for you just in case they eventually mess up) - … which sports good and native…

On the other hand they've been moving to a subscription model, starting a slow deprecation of the standalone product. Towards this end they've introduced the $5 / month family plan and killed the Mac-only option, while raising the price of the Mac+Windows option. At this point it's worth noting that the Windows client is old and buggy. They did this, as I said, to raise attractiveness of the $5 / month family plan, being the oldest trick in the book: setting an anchor for comparisons.

First of all I find $5 / month to be expensive. Yes, that may be the price of 2 coffees, but if you pay that kind of money for any service/app used, pretty soon you're talking about real money. I also like to own things and I hate renting things, being a terrible tenant. I cannot justify a rent of $60 per year for services/apps unless they are investments producing money. Something like 1Password keeps me safe, but it doesn't make me more productive when programming and it's not helping me with sales either. I can justify subscriptions for Dropbox or IntelliJ IDEA or for keeping my domain active, but not for password storage.

I guess what really bothers me is that 1Password is moving away from the things that made me pick it in the first place: standalone app, Dropbox/Wifi sync, Everywhere interface. I expected them to build the Everywhere interface for opvault, to introduce GDrive/OneDrive sync as an option, to fix their Windows client and maybe to introduce a Linux client. Their new Windows client that's the successor to the old one is a "modern Windows" app distributed through the Windows store, which means I won't even be able to keep running 1Password through Wine.

But there's another reason I prefer standalone apps. With the family/business plans they promise a web interface and they promise that after you are dead your wife or children will be able to access your vault. Of course, if I'm dead, the subscription would end because nobody would realize that they need to renew it in time, so that's an odd point to make. But skipping over that, this means that the vault is now stored on their servers and they have access to it and to your one password whenever you login. If you thought the Dropbox sync was insecure, think again.

So unfortunately they took the bait and decided to spend resources on a subscription model, which is exactly what makes me run away. In the grand scheme of things I guess it makes sense and I hope it works out for them. But along with DRM, trusted computing and the overall trend of bait and switch, I find it to be quite treacherous.

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#97
Recently I've seen a lot of anti-Slack articles.

Not once have I heard a colleague criticising Slack. Every startup I know is using it and praising it.

When I work with some people who still use email to coordinate in situations where I usually use Slack, I find it to be maddeningly time-wasting. Email is terrible for group conversation.

It strikes me that there must be some more general for the Slack criticism. Perhaps the hype cycle effect? Or the inevitable fact that at least some companies will use a tool ineffectively, given enough adoption?

To anyone who hasn't already used Slack - I'd recommend a trial, especially if your organisation has a culture of group discussion via email. I've found it to be an excellent tool, particularly when coordinating remotely.

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#98
post #93
post #75

Slack does a good job overall, but I'm glad to see articles like this one challenging the enthusiasm that they've seen of late. I'm starting to share the article's opinion that Slack encourages unthoughtful communication. I do wish the author had spent a little time pointing out some specific product decisions that lead to the kinds of problematic communication they were seeing. For example, basic product choices lik…

I have a hard time agreeing that "Slack's a far sight better than email." The lack of threading and context (mentioned in AB's writeup) means you have to maintain a lot of state (and keep up to date) in order to get any value. That defeats the point of having automation! For good or ill, the 40+ year history of mail means there are various tools and conventions that allow your computer to do part of the work for you.

I recently disabled threading in my email as I have an unfortunate number of people who regularly : send mail using identical subject lines, reply to whatever my previous email to them was rather than come up with a new subject line or send multiple versions of important documents under the same subject/RE the same message over the course of months. This results in a hideous nightmare of thread spaghetti where I can't find stuff, or worse, I'm looking at the wrong iteration of something. Oh, and did I mention all the people who have MIME attachment email footers so that figuring out which email contains the document they sent means looking through every single mail? [0]

So I flattened it back down to chronological order and it feels like that restored a lot of sanity.

[0] Obviously a lot of this chaos can be tamed with a more aggressive process for inbox management, but that kind of plays into my point, that's all out of process manual work that a better communication tool should help me with.

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#99
post #91
post #80

Off-topic, but: AgileBits is one of my favorite companies ever. - Fantastic product - … which genuinely helps people - … which has evolved and matured in an impeccable manner - … which has, as far as I’m aware, never failed critically (no data loss or security breaches – hell, they are so proactive that 1Password saves multiple DB backups for you just in case they eventually mess up) - … which sports good and native…

> Didn’t shut the company down after 2, 3, 4, or 10 years just because they weren’t on track to be a billion dollar company in the next few quarters Who has ever shut down a company for that reason? Typically startups die when they run out of money. Other than that I agree with you: they seem admirably humble and impressively reliable.

I don't think it is as common as many people think, but I've experienced it in a few forms in the past. At one place we were making enough money to pay the bills and were growing slowly. The founder wanted an exit with multiples on his investment. He went shopping around to sell the company, but break even with slow growth is a hard sell. He eventually made the decision to discontinue the revenue making side of the company and focus 100% on building something that he thought could sell the company. He failed in that attempt.

One thing to keep in mind is that for an entrepreneur it may not be a good business decision to keep working on a project that isn't going to have an exit. If you have no way to hand it off to someone else, then sometimes it is better to redirect your funds into something that is more likely to get you a better return. So in the case I mentioned above, he felt he couldn't get the return he wanted, so he redirected the resources of the company to try to get that return.

Even though you can burn through a lot of companies that way, if you are eventually successful you can make a lot of money for yourself and your investors. Many of the people I've worked with in the past I call "serial entrepreneurs" and they know how to eventually win. It's not much fun if you are interested in building a product, though.

Re: Curing Our Slack Addiction

#100
I agree with many of the problems, but quite a few are actually advantages! The biggest misconception I see here is that you try to change other's behaviour instead of your own.

E.g. if there are decisions made without you, let them. Offline there are also many conversations and decisions you are not a part of just because you were so unlucky that you haven't been there at the time. But in an offline or private-chat conversation you can't look up afterwards what each person said exactly, you have to rely on hear-say. So in fact if you accept that decisions are made without your participation (it's called "trust in your team") then using a good chat tool is an advantage.

E.g. 2: People don't use your QnA software or wiki and instead use chat. Maybe instead of convincing them to use the other tools you can learn and teach others how to use the search function of the chat efficiently. You may find that you don't need a QnA software when all the questions and answers are searchable in the chat software. Here you can safe the cost (money, admin, learning time for new guys) of one software.

E.g.3: You want tickets and tickets are really important to link activity like commits. I'm not sure but I would assume that it's possible to find a chatbot which creates tickets for you from your chattool, writes comments to them and gives you back the ticket-id to use it in your commits. Then you also have a kind of log for how a discussion and the creation of a ticket where interlinked with each other, because you see the 'hubot create ticket "debug problem"' in the middle of a conversation happening. More context for free.

To change others the first thing we need to do is change us, and that is admittedly even harder.

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