One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid • Hacker News Board

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#21

Post by nickbauman » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 3:51 AM UTC

FlyingLawnmower wrote: post #15

nickbauman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservative ideology is focused around defining progress (a term somewhat at odds with conservatism itself) as a return to a previous state of affairs (that may have never existed in the first place). That our civilizations apotheosis is somewhere in the past, not the future. This does not seem a compatible perspective with the idea of the university, which was handed down to us from the ideas of Socrates: to probe…

This strikes me as a vast generalization. I think that the author of the article is also including people who have conservative economic views (he calls out libertarians as a marginalized group, who are socially liberal and economically conservative). Surely there's nothing about economic conservatism that flies against progress or probing the universe. While I am not conservative, I believe there is a lot that can b…

Libertarians are in a special category. They are the ultimate utopians in the sense that they believe, perhaps in the complete absence of understanding of the role of the state in the creation of markets, that a market is purely a point of exchange between two or more individuals. There has never been such thing in history. Not in the sense that we understand civilization (for better or worse) as it is today.

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#22

Post by xrd » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 3:51 AM UTC

Thank you, John Hasnas, for bringing up that conservative white men are at a disadvantage in today's world. I always forget how underrepresented they are and how tough it is for them.

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#23

Post by nickbauman » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 3:52 AM UTC

dasil003 wrote: post #13

nickbauman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservative ideology is focused around defining progress (a term somewhat at odds with conservatism itself) as a return to a previous state of affairs (that may have never existed in the first place). That our civilizations apotheosis is somewhere in the past, not the future. This does not seem a compatible perspective with the idea of the university, which was handed down to us from the ideas of Socrates: to probe…

> a return to a previous state of affairs (that may have never existed in the first place) If chasing a state that never really existed wouldn't that make conservatism some sort of defacto progressive utopianism?

Could not have formulated the question better.

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#24

Post by nickbauman » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 3:56 AM UTC

maybeok wrote: post #20

nickbauman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservative ideology is focused around defining progress (a term somewhat at odds with conservatism itself) as a return to a previous state of affairs (that may have never existed in the first place). That our civilizations apotheosis is somewhere in the past, not the future. This does not seem a compatible perspective with the idea of the university, which was handed down to us from the ideas of Socrates: to probe…

s/liberialism/conservitism There's a reason people are voting with their feet in the millions for our capitalist country, not their socialist.

These are at best wiggle words now. Capitalism is a term coined by Marx no less as a criticism. Socialism is a term that is adopted by many different regimes, some democratic, some autocratic. So it too is an almost meaningless word.

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#25

Post by omonra » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 3:56 AM UTC

xrd wrote: post #22

Thank you, John Hasnas, for bringing up that conservative white men are at a disadvantage in today's world. I always forget how underrepresented they are and how tough it is for them.

I downvoted your comment because

a. It's pure snark b. Introduced race into the discussion for no reason c. Did not address any of the actual points made by the OP

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#26

Post by meric » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 3:58 AM UTC

nickbauman wrote: post #21

FlyingLawnmower wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This strikes me as a vast generalization. I think that the author of the article is also including people who have conservative economic views (he calls out libertarians as a marginalized group, who are socially liberal and economically conservative). Surely there's nothing about economic conservatism that flies against progress or probing the universe. While I am not conservative, I believe there is a lot that can b…

Libertarians are in a special category. They are the ultimate utopians in the sense that they believe, perhaps in the complete absence of understanding of the role of the state in the creation of markets, that a market is purely a point of exchange between two or more individuals. There has never been such thing in history. Not in the sense that we understand civilization (for better or worse) as it is today.

Libertarianism and Conservatism doesn't make sense, as you said. Discourse of these ideologies should be banned from university grounds.

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#27

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 4:01 AM UTC

throwaway91214 wrote: post #12

exolymph wrote: post #6

I think it's fair to discriminate (in the literal sense) based on factors people can affect or change, like political affiliation, but not based on factors that people can't change, like race. [1] That said, if you're touting your commitment to diversity, you really should be seeking out, y'know, diversity . Including lots of different kinds of people is a multifaceted endeavor. [1] I know it's not legal to discrimin…

I once worked for a company where it was mandatory (highly encourage and if you did not you might find yourself being fired) to read Alas Shrugged ... with the boss asking you questions as you read it to try understand your political ideology. No, it is not ok to force someone to adopt a political ideology, religion or any other thought process. It was a terrible job, a terrible work environment and I quit as soon as…

[deleted]

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#28

Post by crdb » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 4:02 AM UTC

nickbauman wrote: post #11

panic wrote: post #9

To save you a click: the kind of diversity in question is "political or ideological diversity" with a focus on conservative politics and ideologies.

Conservative ideology is focused around defining progress (a term somewhat at odds with conservatism itself) as a return to a previous state of affairs (that may have never existed in the first place). That our civilizations apotheosis is somewhere in the past, not the future. This does not seem a compatible perspective with the idea of the university, which was handed down to us from the ideas of Socrates: to probe…

> Conservative ideology is focused around defining progress [...] as a return to a previous state of affairs

> To a conservative ideologue, the truth lies behind us.

Given the context, I disagree with your interpretation of the "conservative" label.

It is obvious (to me) that what the author means in this particular article, and the grandparent, is "Conservatism as defined in United States political ideology" [1], perhaps of the Barry Goldwater flavour, and not your broader and in this context misleading definition, which coupled to some of the more vocal people calling themselves conservatives today leads to a form of association fallacy I've observed some university departments use precisely to reject "conservatives".

This particular definition of conservatism is compatible with scientific progress and new thinking, as shown by the evidence of decades of both happening in politically conservative university departments (in the US and abroad) in the 20th century.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_Sta...

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#29

Post by jccalhoun » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 4:04 AM UTC

Once I opened the link, I found that the kind of diversity he was talking about was political (although I couldn't read it since it was behind a paywall). As an academic, my first thought was, "bullshit. There are tons of conservatives in business schools." Imagine my surprise when the author is a professor in a business school: http://faculty.msb.edu/hasnasj/GTWebSite/Newindex.html

Imagine my further shock when I find out that he is associated with the Cato Institute: http://www.cato.org/people/john-hasnas

Of course the fact that it was on the wall street journal editorial page should have been my first clue about its subject matter.

Re: One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

#30

Post by xrd » Wed, Apr 20, 2016, 4:06 AM UTC

omonra wrote: post #25

xrd wrote: post #22

Thank you, John Hasnas, for bringing up that conservative white men are at a disadvantage in today's world. I always forget how underrepresented they are and how tough it is for them.

I downvoted your comment because a. It's pure snark b. Introduced race into the discussion for no reason c. Did not address any of the actual points made by the OP

You are certainly entitled to do that.

Isn't race a factor in this discussion of diversity?

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=61

83% of college professors are white (so am I by the way).

Do you think I care about my reputation on this site enough to cover my mouth when I hear another blatant attempt to inspire sympathy when none is due?

If you think race is not a factor in this kind of discussion then you are hopelessly naive.