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Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

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Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#241
post #18

Great! If he's right, we don't have to do anything, right? No direct subsidies, no feed-in tariffs, no cheap loans, etc. We can just let it happen !.

Your use of the suspiciously specific phrase "direct subsidies" suggests that you already know that coal receives plenty of government subsidies and that if those were removed, and coal had to account for the damage it does, then yes it would just happen.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We did. We do. What a completely useless response. Why even bother commenting? Four words? Since you can't be bothered to come up with a source, see pages 3-10 of the following document from the Congressional Budget Office. [1] Renewables get the large majority of the cash, and nuclear isn't even close. [1]: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/...

Well it's going to cost over $150 Billion to clean up the Hanford Nuclear Site, so shouldn't that be considered as government support of nuclear power?

To be honest, that's a very fair point and figuratively speaking, a kill-shot. I might be right that solar subsidies are never going to pay off, but at least we can be sure it's not going to suddenly fail, foot us with a bill for the clean-up, and poison innocent people.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends. If you assume that w/m^2 still have some growth and that solar panels will be as common on houses as front lawns, and that energy efficiency will continue to rise, it may be appreciably near zero; especially if the average future home becomes a net energy source (These are called zero energy buildings, or ZNE) and we still use wind, geothermal, tidal etc... If you get high deployment in places with high urba…

> w/m^2 still have some growth There's a pretty solid upper-bound on that.

In solutions that don't require unobtanium, current cells are arguably only about 1/4th of the way there. In solutions that have been constructed regardless of cost, it's still not 1/2 the way.

I think seeing another 100% gain in affordable solutions is conservative, since 400% is what's possible.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11524691 Why does solar always need batteries? These are not "advances". India is adding 20k MW of solar and 10k MW of wind p.a. China is at 20+20. US at 20+20. Europe at 20+20. 30% of all new power capacity additions globally will be from renewables for the foreseeable future. Probably more. This is without "batteries". Without subsidies. The need for "baseload", "storage…

The need for reliable energy or energy when the sun is not shining is critical important--according to the people of India. For example, according to this article in ClimateWire (a trade pub) http://www.eenews.net/climatewire/stories/1060026477/ Dharnai, a community of about 3,200 people in eastern India's Bihar state, had been without electricity for three decades. So when activists with Greenpeace set up a solar-po…

[deleted]

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11524691 Why does solar always need batteries? These are not "advances". India is adding 20k MW of solar and 10k MW of wind p.a. China is at 20+20. US at 20+20. Europe at 20+20. 30% of all new power capacity additions globally will be from renewables for the foreseeable future. Probably more. This is without "batteries". Without subsidies. The need for "baseload", "storage…

The need for reliable energy or energy when the sun is not shining is critical important--according to the people of India. For example, according to this article in ClimateWire (a trade pub) http://www.eenews.net/climatewire/stories/1060026477/ Dharnai, a community of about 3,200 people in eastern India's Bihar state, had been without electricity for three decades. So when activists with Greenpeace set up a solar-po…

>>http://dharnailive.org/

Not bad. They only generated ~2500 kWh electricity last week.

Giving anything for free is a thankless job. Almost anything given for free is almost certainly treated as worthless.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#246
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is solar viable for small installations without any subsidies ? I was recently looking at a 30KW proposal for a small enterprise in Tamil Nadu. The quoted price is Rs. 36 lakhs. At the rate of Rs 6.75 per unit, it doesn't even cover the interest costs. Does this match with your capex costs or is this way off ?

Solar is viable, you will be looking at a 6-7year payback on the system with interest, 36Lakhs is very high for a 30kW system. The prices should be in the range of 25-27L for an on grid system with a simple structure. Where in Tamil Nadu is this? Ping me if you are looking for more details(mail Id in profile), I work for a company that does solar installations.

Thanks for the reply. I could not find your mail id in your profile. You can send me an email to {My HN username}{at}gmail and I can send you more details

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#247

I don't know how things work in India, but it seems to me that big government backed projects in India don't quite work out. The great thing about solar is NOT depending on government. If government puts the right regulation in place, that allows people to locally build solar cells on their houses, farms etc then that it where the great potential for solar power is. Not being dependent on central authorities doing th…

In general I understand the principle of the argument, that the government is not as driven as private sector because there is strong incentive structures in private companies. But with some good management decent incentive structures in govt, it can also work. Case in point, the some of the Indian banks which were nationalized, the Indian railways(the largest rail network in the world), and in many Indian States govt. diary companies have worked decently well as well.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#248

Who would have thought that India outdoes all the west when it comes to making sustainable growth. Google CEO Indian. Microsoft CEO Indian. Watch out all you fox news watching Americans.

I do think ambitious & driven Indians can do very well in a global market place. I think the stiff competition in resources have made the cream of India very competitive at a global level and we see things like Indian at Microsoft CEO position. But I dont buy your argument that Indians are outdoing the west yet(not saying it can't be done), but there have been more American CEO's in the fortune 500 than Indian CEOs.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11524691 Why does solar always need batteries? These are not "advances". India is adding 20k MW of solar and 10k MW of wind p.a. China is at 20+20. US at 20+20. Europe at 20+20. 30% of all new power capacity additions globally will be from renewables for the foreseeable future. Probably more. This is without "batteries". Without subsidies. The need for "baseload", "storage…

> The need for "baseload", "storage", or "the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow" are red herrings. They are not relevant. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment, but how is my desire for electricity at night time "not relevant"?

Haha. That's funny. Would the thought going through daytime renewables without batteries coincide with the idea to transition to natural gas or other power plants at night? I do not know if there would be problems here and observe the comments of all the great minds here usually, but I want to address the need to stop nuclear plants anywhere near faults or coastlines after reading the data of increasing shifting of our poles and daily earthquakes of low magnitude mostly, but a new thing for certain in my area of North Texas. Earthquake watch scared me last week after feeling and hearing two of enough strength to shake things up a bit. Until the observable large, dark objects in our solar system are reported on without disinformation and honesty, I truly believe we should be safe in case they are objects causing these great rifts. No need to argue, spread love and achieve more. I read so much here hoping to ring a mental bell and remember lost skills due to an accident and a coma. I just retained ability to learn in a new way of sorts and also want to thank all of you for your informational and technical posts.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#250
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WTO should STFU in this particular case. It is clearly something that needs to be done, and many western countries also subsidize markets they want to stimulate. It is unreasonable to expect India to play by stupid rules that the US and EU constantly violate.

> many western countries also subsidize markets they want to stimulate Subsidizing markets is different to favouring local suppliers. For instance, Germany's feed in tariffs subsidized solar, but it didn't distinguish between German, American and Chinese manufacturers, and that policy is a major reason why solar prices have come down so much - Germany almost single-handedly supported the scaling up of capacity, and s…

That is true. Still, I find it somewhat odd to expect a relatively poor country (per capita) to subsidize rich western companies. I'm for cutting developing countries some slack.
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