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Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

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Re: Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

#101
Your question is a bit open ended. You want to learn about "stocks" and "market". The second one is a blanket term, but I'll share what I have been doing as, like you, I too prefer videos/audios over reading books.

For past one year, I have been very actively listening to financial podcasts, reading investopedia, taking classes on Coursera (I avoided Udemy so as not to pay for courses). After gleaning through various resources, I settled on the following:

Podcasts: [1] Money Tree Investing: http://moneytreepodcast.com/ [2] We Study Billionaires - The Investors Podcast: https://www.theinvestorspodcast.com/

I listened to other podcasts and finally settled on these two. I particularly like [2] for the in depth analysis on markets from each guests perspective/expertise.

Classes: [1] Understanding Financial Markets: https://www.coursera.org/learn/understanding-financial-marke... [2] Introduction to Finance: https://www.coursera.org/specializations/valuation-investmen...

I took only one course in [2], couple of years back and it was very helpful.

Sites: [1] Investopedia.

Keeping in mind that you are a beginner.

I do not invest money in stocks. As @brianpgordon mentioned below, it is very hard to beat the market, especially for a beginner. I only put money in ETF's and low cost index funds. But listening and or reading above resources keeps me educated about this field.

Personal Opinion: "The Intelligent Investor" is very dense and is not for casual investor. Read it only if you are serious about this subject.

EDIT: Edited too many general statements.

Re: Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

#103
Millionaire Teacher[0] is what I read for a layman's approach to index investing. It approaches it mostly from an expat's perspective, but the core approach is the same regardless of where you are or plan to retire. And for Canadian-tilted advice I read the Canadian Couch Potato blog[1].

0 - https://andrewhallam.com/

1 - http://canadiancouchpotato.com/

Re: Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

#104
We're coming off a multigenerational bull market. So writings are a tad unrealistically optimistic. For a slight counterexample, or a dose of reality:

Reminiscences of a Stock Operator by Edwin Lefèvre

Where are the Customers Yachts by Fred Schwed

Nothing has really changed psychologically since those books. The same people are doing the same things for the same reasons, just with different numbers and tools. This will provide some background in those areas. Very much like music or sex (edited to add, or programming), young people like to think their generation invented the topic, but not as much has changed as you'd think.

Note that just because its hilarious reading what Livermore did a long time ago, doesn't mean you won't get thrown in jail if you tried it today. So these are like anthropological case studies, not preachy instruction manuals. Make sure you get that.

Aside from that I'd propose the usual critical thinking skills. Whenever you hear or read something: Follow the money. From his perspective, why is he telling me this? Where is this on the lifecycle of ideas from new (perhaps only to you) to conventional wisdom (may already be obsolete) to obsolete, and is this a linear time or circular time situation?

Finally bad people or bad motivations don't necessarily torpedo an idea. Take for example haircuts. Ask your barber how often you should get a haircut, that will be every paycheck please, because he's paid transactionally. Likewise, you ask your financial advisor or broker how often you should dollar cost average, because he's paid transactionally guess what his advice will be. However, corrupt as that may appear on the surface, it might none the less be correct advice, for reasons having nothing to do with your broker's revenue stream!

Re: Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

#105

Looking at the demographics and political climate of America, I am not at all bullish on the idea of the continuation of long-term bull market. Ignoring anything technical, there are two extremely strong things going against the markets: 1. The fact that the boomers will be drawing down on their investments as they retire and begin to spend them. 2. The sentiment that is growing against our corporatist structure that…

3. Demographic shifts. For example the classic nobody is going to buy cars because we'll all live in luxury city apartments and uber. As if the FIRE sector will simply give up on car loan revenue, those dollars will have to come from somewhere. Or if you laugh at the boosterism people for saying the same things since 1970 and it all fails, then who eats the losses on those luxury apartments and gig economy taxi startups? Either way its going to be very exciting.

Re: Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

#106
> I did a search and found out that everybody is recommending "The Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham.

This book is too advanced for beginner level. As a beginner, you most probably will not like this book and reading it might turn you off investing and stock market (too complex).

The type of books you want are the ones that cover basics and are easy to read. Instead of considering books recommended by others, I will suggest going to a physical book store (library is another option), pick up any investing book on the shelf, read for 15-20 minutes. If you like what you are reading or book fascinates you and you want to continue reading the book, buy (check out) the book and take it home.

If you are a visual learner, I heard Khan Academy videos are good. Also, consider reading biographies of famous investors and financiers and other story-telling type of investing related books. As I am not visual learner, I can't make any specific recommendations.

If you prefer numbers, I will suggest reading "Millionaire Next Door", "A Random Walk Down Wall Street", and "What Works on Wall Street". The first one is not per se investing book but more of an "encouragement" book that will help you continue learning about saving and investing.

> What's your story?

I learnt stock market as "substitute" for gambling. When I first started out working professionally, some newbies (like me) at work will go out to casinos or have booze and gambling Thursday nights (alternate Friday off from work). A few of these people were hardcore gamblers: studying and learning tips and tricks of blackjack, poker etc. Monday lunch at work cafeteria used to be "whining" session, how we lost so much money and odds are against us, etc.

During one such whining session, an older member at work mentioned that on his Friday off, he goes to library to read Wall Street Journal, Value Line to research stocks and check value of his stocks like checking lottery numbers in newspaper (pre-Internet days). He got his "gambling" adrenaline through stock market and how odds of winning are much better than going to casino. This was the start of my interest in stock market and learning more about trading and investing and saving. I went to library on my Friday off to read and check out any investing and trading book on the shelf. I most probably read 30+ different books in a few months period at the start. Investing and trading is the only hobby that has kept me interested over the years.

Re: Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

#107
post #99

You will never, ever beat the market by making smart trades. Get real- you're a beginner reading investopedia. Active funds employ hundreds or thousands of people who work more than full-time to support an operation of systematically studying investment opportunities and exploiting inside information to beat the market, and even they don't beat the market. Put your money in a diversified portfolio of index funds and…

You're making a lot of absolute statements that are demonstrably false. >> You will never, ever beat the market by making smart trades. How do you define "smart" trades? There are people and firms which consistently beat the S&P 500 after fees and trade commissions on a timeline of 20+ years without using insider trading. What would this be called, other than "smart" trading? >> Active funds employ hundreds or thousa…

>There are people and firms which consistently beat the S&P 500 after fees and trade commissions on a timeline of 20+ years without using insider trading. What would this be called, other than "smart" trading?

Mind naming a few? I'm unfamiliar with any firms that consistently can beat the S&P 500, much less for 20+ consecutive years. This could, of course, be called "luck". Given the number of investors, some will inevitably beat the index. The point is that it's impossible to predict, ahead of time, who that will be.

> I agree with advice advocating index funds for beginners, but it's not fair to an individual's potential aspirations to claim that active trading is simply ineffective. It's extremely difficult, but that's wildly different from being ineffective.

Again, even amongst professional investors, who have decades of experience, and spend 80+ hours per week doing this, very few are able to consistently beat the index.

Re: Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

#108

You will never, ever beat the market by making smart trades. Get real- you're a beginner reading investopedia. Active funds employ hundreds or thousands of people who work more than full-time to support an operation of systematically studying investment opportunities and exploiting inside information to beat the market, and even they don't beat the market. Put your money in a diversified portfolio of index funds and…

>You will never, ever beat the market by making smart trades. Agree. Just buy ticker VOO and get on with your life. Even Warren Buffet has said to buy 90% VOO and 10% bonds. And you will never be as good at this as Warren Buffett. That said, I take 10% of my net worth and put it in a 'casino fund' where I can buy whatever I want. Startups, peer to peer nonsense, individual stocks, and so on.

VOO isn't exposed to international developed and emerging markets. If you have the appetite for risk, you may want to take significant positions in VEA and VWO.

Re: Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

#109

You will never, ever beat the market by making smart trades. Get real- you're a beginner reading investopedia. Active funds employ hundreds or thousands of people who work more than full-time to support an operation of systematically studying investment opportunities and exploiting inside information to beat the market, and even they don't beat the market. Put your money in a diversified portfolio of index funds and…

Why does an investor have to beat the market. If the companies you invested in are getting richer and making useful products, investors should get rich too. Its not zero sum.

That's what you're trying to do by poring over investment books and investopedia. Anyone can track the market by buying the S&P 500 or an index fund. All of the complicated investment advice comes when you try to do better than the index.

Re: Ask HN: How did you learn about stocks and the market?

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for Index investing - also called passive investing, couch potato investing etc. It is so simple and elegant I can put it in code: // Decide asset allocation based on risk tolerance. E.g. 75% Stocks / 25% Fixed income set_asset_allocation(risk_tolerance) // Determine which index you want to track. E.g. 25% Canada (TSX) // 25% US (S&P500), 25% Developed World (MCSI EAFE) select_funds(list_of_funds) // Set up automa…

And there are services now which automate this. For a management fee (generally 0.025%/year) you can set up automated recurring deposits, choose a risk tolerance, and let the algorithm continuously rebalance your portfolio automatically in a tax-efficient way. Just click some nice big friendly buttons and enter your information and forget about it, and watch your portfolio grow (or drop, with the market). I work at a…

The services you mentioned only for US, or anyone can access it. For example EU citizens can also open account and set periodic investment?
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