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Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

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Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#201

Post by zo1 »

paulmd wrote: post #103
bigiain wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why ban steroids? Why ban amphetamines? Whyban surgical modification? Why ban genetic engineering? Why ban motorised exo skeletons and nano technology? (I just read a great short story along these lines called ""Slipping" by Lauren Brookes - from the EFF'S PWNING TOMORROW short fiction anthology...)

The same question applies to all of those. If we allow technological enhancements, why is one enhancement too far? You couldn't run the course as fast as you can cycle it, after all. The same argument applies to all those other things - if we allow them then the playing field needs to stay absolutely level otherwise the person who can afford the strongest drugs, the newest gene-splicing, and the most efficient exoske…

It's already about which country/team/city can spend the most money scouting the best talent, or poaching them from ever-expanding pools.

Then there's the matter of paying the most for the best coaches, best data analytics to optimize the bio performance of the human individual, etc.

I'd argue that you can't really say that money is the reason for not include or limiting technology. If it's about a level playing field, then money should be the first thing to remove.

How about a random sampling of a country/city's population? Have them compete against each-other. Otherwise, it'll always be about money as it's integral to sport.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#202

Post by SeanDav »

I used to be an enthusiastic bicycle racing spectator. I would watch hours of the Tour De France everyday if I had the chance and pay close attention to other races.

No longer.

I have long since stopped watching, or caring what happens in bicycle racing. As far as I am concerned, the winner is the best cheat who has not been caught yet. I would not be the slightest bit surprised if half these guys had induction motors in their seats and batteries inserted up their backsides.

This is deeply unfair to those who do not cheat, but I am so tired of being disappointed by endless drug and cheating scandals in cycling that I would rather spend my time watching golf or something that does not involve a lot of cheating.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#203

Post by antientropic »

dandare wrote: post #179

There is a clear evidence from Vuleta 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynLMfzLTc8M The cyclosport officials intentionally hide/enable the problem for years.

That is in no way "clear evidence", the opinions of all the Youtube commenters notwithstanding. It can just as well be explained by the rotation of the rear wheel, see for example https://youtu.be/aN7HjwZI-k0?t=32.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#204

Post by thaumasiotes »

dalke wrote: post #167
thaumasiotes wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we vary a bicycle race one way, by replacing the bicycles with walking sticks, which require no technology as long as you're willing to put in the time to find one rather than carving it; and vary it another way, by replacing the cyclists with monkeys -- which of those two resulting races (humans with walking sticks vs monkeys with bicycles dimensioned appropriately to the monkeys) is more similar to a "bicycle ra…

> there is no actual line between the use of gears and the use of motors. There's a very clear line in this case. Cycling is a human powered sport. Battery, gasoline, nuclear, and other power sources are not allowed. This is why mopeds are not allowed. Also prohibited is temporary power storage like a capacitor or spring, which might be used for regenerative braking. You can put all the motors you want on your bike (…

>> which of those two resulting races (humans with walking sticks vs monkeys with bicycles dimensioned appropriately to the monkeys)

> Under UCI rules, cyclist aren't allowed to use aeroshells, and recumbent bicycles are also prohibited, even though both are much more "similar" to a bicycle than your proposed monkey with a walking stick.

> If you want to run a race which allows a monkey with a walking stick to compete, feel free!

Consider reading my comment before you respond to it. If you want to argue that bicycles are more similar to bicycles than they are to walking sticks... that was most of the point of my comment, too.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#205

Post by hardlianotion »

lmm wrote: post #194
nradov wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the extra weight of a flywheel plus motor/generator would far outweigh any small advantage. The energy density is just too low for any flywheel small enough to fit on a bike. And the gyroscopic effects would mess with handling.

Citation? Flywheels can be very efficient especially with modern engineering. And it could be oriented so that the gyroscopic effects were stabilizing or destabilizing as desired, plus I think in any case riders would adapt quickly - I ride a "twitchy" bike with no front fork sometimes, and my old professor built a bike with a counter-rotating flywheel to disprove the myth that cyclists rely on gyroscopic effects to…

That's really interesting about the gyroscopic effects myth, as it is one I strongly believe! Is there some documentation of the bike or some analysis of this I can read?

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#206

Post by buro9 »

wl wrote: post #69
paulmd wrote: post #64

Just take the bike out of the race entirely. Declare a year in advance that the bike will be XYZ model Q so people can train on them, and the race maintains custody of all race bikes, spares, etc. It's already a money-competition to see who can buy the best super-bike. Yes, you have to have a minimum weight, but that just means that you can take a superbike and spend the extra weight applying aerodynamic fairings whe…

The last time I bought a new bicycle, I had to try a lot of them before I found one I really enjoyed. I'd imagine world-class cyclists are even pickier than I am.

They get team bikes. They aren't picky.

Long gone are the days of a pro rider turning up on a relabelled bike of their choice (their bike, their sponsors' logos).

The bikes tend to be distinct enough that they are definitely riding the frame of their team sponsor, and the wheels have become similarly distinctive too (no more Lightweights disguised as Mavic).

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#207

Post by tremon »

jdietrich wrote: post #81
paulmd wrote: post #64

Just take the bike out of the race entirely. Declare a year in advance that the bike will be XYZ model Q so people can train on them, and the race maintains custody of all race bikes, spares, etc. It's already a money-competition to see who can buy the best super-bike. Yes, you have to have a minimum weight, but that just means that you can take a superbike and spend the extra weight applying aerodynamic fairings whe…

Technology is an integral part of cycling, just as it is in motorsport. There are some one-design motorsport racing classes, but they are far from the most popular. Fans like to see innovation, we like to coo over the beautiful new machinery on display. Some of the greatest moments in cycling are directly related to technical progress, most obviously the Obree/Boardman battle for the hour record. On one side a profes…

Cycle racing exists in a symbiotic relationship with cycle manufacturing

How many racing teams are named after bicycle manufacturers?

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#208

Post by misterS »

tremon wrote: post #207
jdietrich wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology is an integral part of cycling, just as it is in motorsport. There are some one-design motorsport racing classes, but they are far from the most popular. Fans like to see innovation, we like to coo over the beautiful new machinery on display. Some of the greatest moments in cycling are directly related to technical progress, most obviously the Obree/Boardman battle for the hour record. On one side a profes…

Cycle racing exists in a symbiotic relationship with cycle manufacturing How many racing teams are named after bicycle manufacturers?

Of the current world tour [1]: five.

  * BMC RACING TEAM
  * CANNONDALE PRO CYCLING TEAM
  * LAMPRE - MERIDA
  * TEAM GIANT - ALPECIN
  * TREK - SEGAFREDO
(I may have missed some)

But note that many if not all teams are sponsored by manufacturers (frames, wheels, geartrain, etc).

Edit: five. Forgot Merida.

[1] http://www.uci.ch/road/teams/

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#209

Post by danielsamuels »

tremon wrote: post #207
jdietrich wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology is an integral part of cycling, just as it is in motorsport. There are some one-design motorsport racing classes, but they are far from the most popular. Fans like to see innovation, we like to coo over the beautiful new machinery on display. Some of the greatest moments in cycling are directly related to technical progress, most obviously the Obree/Boardman battle for the hour record. On one side a profes…

Cycle racing exists in a symbiotic relationship with cycle manufacturing How many racing teams are named after bicycle manufacturers?

4 I think: Cannondale, Lampre Merida, Giant Alpecin, Trek Segafredo.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#210

Post by danielsamuels »

misterS wrote: post #208
tremon wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cycle racing exists in a symbiotic relationship with cycle manufacturing How many racing teams are named after bicycle manufacturers?

Of the current world tour [1]: five. * BMC RACING TEAM * CANNONDALE PRO CYCLING TEAM * LAMPRE - MERIDA * TEAM GIANT - ALPECIN * TREK - SEGAFREDO (I may have missed some) But note that many if not all teams are sponsored by manufacturers (frames, wheels, geartrain, etc). Edit: five. Forgot Merida. [1] http://www.uci.ch/road/teams/

Lampre-Merida too. So 5 total.
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