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Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

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Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#101

Post by m_mueller »

sgift wrote: post #92
m_mueller wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can someone explain to me how EU/US can heavy handedly protect their own agriculture and not violate the same rules? How is energy infrastructure not part of the same exemptions (assuming that those exist)?

Short version: Agriculture is one of the classic areas where countries usually said "no, we want to be independent, all the talk about free markets aside" .. That was the case when GATT[1] was still active (a framework, which built the base of the WTO), then came the Uruquay round[2] which established the WTO and stated that we now really, really have to find a way to include agriculture, which lead to the Doha round…

IMO it makes quite a bit of sense to exclude a few areas from enforced free trade. Otherwise we could as well argue that countries must allow a free market for acquiring military services. The thing is, it's silly to only do this for agriculture. There's a few areas that are vital for a nation to have some sense of independence, and allowing the protection of energy infrastructure is certainly one of them.

Don't get me wrong though, I'd prefer a world without the need for nation states and borders - but as long as we do have them IMO some of these international organisations are overstepping, and WTO is near the top of that list.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#102

Post by TheLogothete »

tremon wrote: post #100
TheLogothete wrote: post #16

So his quote is "I think a new coal plant would give you costlier power than a solar plant" He thinks a NEW plant would give you costlier energy. Secondly, aren't the solar projects subsidized in a BIG way? I have seen many smart people say that solar is a sham. They say it's just an opportunist's play. Entrepreneurs want to get on the government's tit and the politicians are happy to portray themselves as environmen…

FTFA: Capital costs [for solar] have fallen 60% in the past four years and could drop a further 40% reports Deutsche Bank Solar energy prices hit a new record low in January with the auction of 420 megawatts in Rajasthan at 4.34 rupees a kilowatt-hour. In comparison coal tariffs range between 3-5 rupees/kWh. You do the math.

I can't do the math because there are no baselines. Talking about capex reduction in percentages doesn't tell me the overall picture. You also talk about energy prices, but are those prices subsidized?

All the talk about solar energy is making unfair comparisons and people are eating it up because it aligns with their wishful thinking. Just take as an example this article. The minister said that solar energy might be cheaper compared to energy from NEW coal plants. But everyone in here heard something else.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#103

Post by nxzero »

murukesh_s wrote: post #8

“I sincerely believe that what the West is doing in this respect is anti-development and anti the fight against climate change,” he said, accusing rich countries of charging too much for clean technology." I really don't believe any country is sincere towards climate change. Every country puts their economy before others. So expecting another economy to help you is a foolish assumption.

>> "expecting another economy to help you is a foolish assumption."

He's not requesting other countries help them, he's requesting other countries help themselves. Dependence on coal and being a last major country to replace coal with solar is foolish. Engery defines economies, and solar is the future.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#105

Post by function_seven »

jdale27 wrote: post #6
kristopolous wrote: post #2

This is called Swanson's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swanson%27s_law "The future is solar" isn't some hippy fantasy, it's a sincere market projection. Apparently, a robust, distributed, decentralized, sustainable power grid is unbelievably the actual long-term direction of free-market forces.

Astounding! Yet another example of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigler's_law_of_eponymy !

I dub your comment: Function_seven's Law of Meta-Astoundment.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#106

Post by forgetsusername »

beedogs wrote: post #9
murukesh_s wrote: post #8

“I sincerely believe that what the West is doing in this respect is anti-development and anti the fight against climate change,” he said, accusing rich countries of charging too much for clean technology." I really don't believe any country is sincere towards climate change. Every country puts their economy before others. So expecting another economy to help you is a foolish assumption.

It doesn't help that the developed countries want to flog off their increasingly-worthless coal reserves to developing countries.

I know, right? Why do those rich western countries like Indonesia and Colombia dump their worthless coal reserves into poor countries like the US, Germany, Japan and China?

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#107

Post by mcv »

noisy_boy wrote: post #17
murukesh_s wrote: post #8

“I sincerely believe that what the West is doing in this respect is anti-development and anti the fight against climate change,” he said, accusing rich countries of charging too much for clean technology." I really don't believe any country is sincere towards climate change. Every country puts their economy before others. So expecting another economy to help you is a foolish assumption.

You are correct that every country puts their economy before others. However, India is not asking another economy to help them. India can develop its solar energy sector by itself. The west accuses the developing countries to be big polluters since they use less environmentally-friendly means of energy production. Then when countries like India try to subsidize the domestic solar energy market, WTO accuses them of il…

The WTO should STFU in this particular case. It is clearly something that needs to be done, and many western countries also subsidize markets they want to stimulate. It is unreasonable to expect India to play by stupid rules that the US and EU constantly violate.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#108

Post by forgetsusername »

aaron695 wrote: post #98

A politician make a statement in a speech and HN eats it up as scientific truth. People really can't leave their bubble worlds can they?

There's quite a bit of disillusionment regarding the reality of energy production.

But solar is getting cheaper. Is anyone shocked?

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