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Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

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Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#91

Post by crdoconnor »

StreamBright wrote: post #21
mgnacl wrote: post #5

This is great news. Years ago it was considered an indisputable fact that solar (and wind) couldn't compete with the economics of coal and nuclear.

And it is still true, wind will be never be able to compete with nuclear for the simple fact that wind blows when it blows and you need energy when you need it. Unless we develop a technology that is able to cope with the huge spikes that windmills put on the energy grid and store energy in a very efficient way (including gaining the energy back when we need it) wind will not be more than few percentage of the overal…

>And it is still true, wind will be never be able to compete with nuclear for the simple fact that wind blows when it blows and you need energy when you need it. Unless we develop a technology that is able to cope with the huge spikes

A) The spikes aren't actually that huge (fossil fuel companies exaggerate, who knew?).

B) It's a problem that's relatively easily dealt with by overproducing and variable pricing. After years of championing free markets, fossil fuel companies 'forgot' that they are efficient mechanisms for mediating fluctuating demand and supply.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#92

Post by sgift »

m_mueller wrote: post #66
davedx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India can develop its solar energy sector by itself. Until the US sues them and the WTO rules against them. http://in.reuters.com/article/usa-india-solar-idINKCN0QV2FD2...

can someone explain to me how EU/US can heavy handedly protect their own agriculture and not violate the same rules? How is energy infrastructure not part of the same exemptions (assuming that those exist)?

Short version: Agriculture is one of the classic areas where countries usually said "no, we want to be independent, all the talk about free markets aside" .. That was the case when GATT[1] was still active (a framework, which built the base of the WTO), then came the Uruquay round[2] which established the WTO and stated that we now really, really have to find a way to include agriculture, which lead to the Doha round that ran since 2001 and more or less broke down in 2007/2008 - mainly over the issue of agricultural protection. Since then, nothing happened[3].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Agreement_on_Tariffs_a... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay_Round / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agreement_on_Agriculture [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doha_Development_Round

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#93

Post by nickysielicki »

pjc50 wrote: post #76
TheLogothete wrote: post #16

So his quote is "I think a new coal plant would give you costlier power than a solar plant" He thinks a NEW plant would give you costlier energy. Secondly, aren't the solar projects subsidized in a BIG way? I have seen many smart people say that solar is a sham. They say it's just an opportunist's play. Entrepreneurs want to get on the government's tit and the politicians are happy to portray themselves as environmen…

I don't think India subsidises solar power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawaharlal_Nehru_National_Sola...

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#95

Post by codeulike »

levemi wrote: post #23

Whatever the realities of the cost of solar, I tend to worry about a future in which we cover vast swaths of areas with solar panels and the impact such a thing will have on the environment. I don't know if anyone has done good studies on it. A bunch other sustainable forms of energy have environmental problems. Wind generators cause harm to birds, geothermal electricity sources like in Hawai'i raise the temperature…

Surface Area of solar panels needed to power the world:

http://landartgenerator.org/blagi/wp-content/uploads/2009/08...

Its less than you think. Most of them could be on rooftops.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#96

Post by collyw »

staticelf wrote: post #36
levemi wrote: post #23

Whatever the realities of the cost of solar, I tend to worry about a future in which we cover vast swaths of areas with solar panels and the impact such a thing will have on the environment. I don't know if anyone has done good studies on it. A bunch other sustainable forms of energy have environmental problems. Wind generators cause harm to birds, geothermal electricity sources like in Hawai'i raise the temperature…

It will probably be less worrysome than what we do today, covering a lot of the earth with animals that is horrible for the environment.

Humans are the only animals that seem to have a significant environmental impact.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#100

Post by tremon »

TheLogothete wrote: post #16

So his quote is "I think a new coal plant would give you costlier power than a solar plant" He thinks a NEW plant would give you costlier energy. Secondly, aren't the solar projects subsidized in a BIG way? I have seen many smart people say that solar is a sham. They say it's just an opportunist's play. Entrepreneurs want to get on the government's tit and the politicians are happy to portray themselves as environmen…

FTFA:

Capital costs [for solar] have fallen 60% in the past four years and could drop a further 40% reports Deutsche Bank

Solar energy prices hit a new record low in January with the auction of 420 megawatts in Rajasthan at 4.34 rupees a kilowatt-hour. In comparison coal tariffs range between 3-5 rupees/kWh.

You do the math.

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