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Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

fittish.deadspin.com

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Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#191

Post by wobbleblob »

bigiain wrote: post #163
rhizome wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every spandex rider you pass is pretending?

Nope - that was aimed at me not them - but I'm happy to let the stereotype burn stand ;-) I will say to a first approximation, 100% of the RadioShack lycra liveried carbon fibre Trek riders I see riding through Sydney traffic on a weekday morning are _not_ Lance Armstrong class riders. (Not any more than I'm a Carl Fogarty or Troy Bayliss class motorcycle racer when I put my racing leathers on and fire up my Ducati M…

A little off topic, but what's cycling like there?

From what I've heard (never been there) Australia is about as close as it gets to the perfect society... except they hate cyclists like the plague?

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#192

Post by ghostDancer »

relik wrote: post #116

cycling seems to always be mired in scandal. why is this the case?

If other sports , like football/soccer were under the same surveillance as cycling, the results probably would be similar, but it's easier to go on the same people.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#193

Post by lmm »

dalke wrote: post #167
thaumasiotes wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we vary a bicycle race one way, by replacing the bicycles with walking sticks, which require no technology as long as you're willing to put in the time to find one rather than carving it; and vary it another way, by replacing the cyclists with monkeys -- which of those two resulting races (humans with walking sticks vs monkeys with bicycles dimensioned appropriately to the monkeys) is more similar to a "bicycle ra…

> there is no actual line between the use of gears and the use of motors. There's a very clear line in this case. Cycling is a human powered sport. Battery, gasoline, nuclear, and other power sources are not allowed. This is why mopeds are not allowed. Also prohibited is temporary power storage like a capacitor or spring, which might be used for regenerative braking. You can put all the motors you want on your bike (…

> There's a very clear line in this case. Cycling is a human powered sport. Battery, gasoline, nuclear, and other power sources are not allowed. This is why mopeds are not allowed. Also prohibited is temporary power storage like a capacitor or spring, which might be used for regenerative braking.

Doesn't a derailleur have to have a spring in it? And any chain will have a certain amount of tension that allows it to store a (small) amount of energy. Heck, even standing up on the pedals is a way of storing energy to use later.

> Only a specific set of technology is allowed in a bike race. Under UCI rules, cyclist aren't allowed to use aeroshells, and recumbent bicycles are also prohibited, even though both are much more "similar" to a bicycle than your proposed monkey with a walking stick.

This makes me sad. Is there a formula/series that allows any kind of purely human-powered vehicle, whether it looks like a traditional bicycle or not? I'd love to watch that.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#194

Post by lmm »

nradov wrote: post #118
paulmd wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A clutched flywheel would probably be an advantage in many kinds of terrain. Imagine being able to spin up the flywheel from pedalling or gravity (geared) while going downhill, and then when you hit an uphill section you kick in the gear and pedal easy. It would essentially turn most tracks into "flat" tracks.

No the extra weight of a flywheel plus motor/generator would far outweigh any small advantage. The energy density is just too low for any flywheel small enough to fit on a bike. And the gyroscopic effects would mess with handling.

Citation? Flywheels can be very efficient especially with modern engineering. And it could be oriented so that the gyroscopic effects were stabilizing or destabilizing as desired, plus I think in any case riders would adapt quickly - I ride a "twitchy" bike with no front fork sometimes, and my old professor built a bike with a counter-rotating flywheel to disprove the myth that cyclists rely on gyroscopic effects to stabilize them.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#196

Post by lmm »

wobbleblob wrote: post #148
bigiain wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify, my cheater bike" is a $50 eBay 2nd hand mountain bike that I use to commute to work - not something I ride dressed in lycra pretending to be faster than other people... I call it my "cheater bike", 'cause that what it _feels_ like riding it up hills... It makes me laugh everytime I ride it. (I do _occasionally_ enjoy passing mamils on bikes that weigh less then their brekfast going uphill on my way to wor…

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? Why not ride a scooter? Not aimed at you personally, but in my commute I'm not happy with all these motorized bicycles on the bike lane nowadays. They're usually ridden by people who don't race seriously, and are now riding 30+ km/h, but doing it as though they're still going 15 km/h: not looking behind them before passing or turning, immediately ringing their bell if you're i…

A scooter's harder to park. And depending on how long your commute is, half-cycling might be the right amount of workout/time where cycling the whole way would be too much. (I sometimes take the train halfway to work and cycle the rest of the way or vice versa).

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#198

Post by dingaling »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #93
niels_olson wrote: post #47

Am I the only cyclist here? I can't imagine voluntarily putting batteries in my bike on a long, mountainous stage. There's no way the batteries will last, and then I'm stuck with dead weight. And, looking through the actual documentary, I didn't see any incontrovertable thermal proof of a battery in any racer. In the guy posing for a shot, yes, but not in the cyclists laboring up the hill.

The dude who was cruising up the hill without standing on his pedals seemed pretty obviously using an assist.

Standing on pedals is actually less efficient than remaining on the saddle. You break out of the optimum cadence.

However it does shift the work to different muscles which is why some riders stand for particular stretches of hill prior to a seated sprint.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#199

Post by maho »

bigiain wrote: post #157
wobbleblob wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? Why not ride a scooter? Not aimed at you personally, but in my commute I'm not happy with all these motorized bicycles on the bike lane nowadays. They're usually ridden by people who don't race seriously, and are now riding 30+ km/h, but doing it as though they're still going 15 km/h: not looking behind them before passing or turning, immediately ringing their bell if you're i…

I also ride motorcycles, but the bicycle I can ride int the lobby and take up the lift to the office - it's quicker door-to-door (over 8km) than the motorcycle, which I sometimes get to park close by but if I don't come in early I end up parking a few blocks away (or _gasp_ paying for parking). I;m with you on the dangers of people who don't have good situational awareness zooming around on electric bikes - but I thi…

Your cheater-bike-build sounds pretty interesting. Did you describe the build-process in detail somewhere? Or would you care to write it up?

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#200

Post by mschuster91 »

jdietrich wrote: post #59
Overtonwindow wrote: post #41

For the big races, why don't they embargo the bikes prior to the race? Then xray them at random. Beginning of the day the rider pics up the bike, turn it in at night. The mechanic can work on it, whatever, in a special shop. Especially for the one day races. I can see how this would be difficult with multi-day races, but something like this should be feasible elsewhere.

It's logistically very difficult. All ProTour riders will have at least one spare bike. The teams will also have at least 20 spare wheelsets available. For a typical one-day like the Paris-Roubaix, that means at least 400 bikes and a thousand spare wheels. These bikes and wheels all need to be checked and maintained before every day of racing. Cycle races often start and finish in small towns, so the teams may have t…

I don't see a problem with not testing the wheels - you can't really hide batteries inside the tube.
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