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Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

fittish.deadspin.com

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Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#181

Post by usrusr »

tzs wrote: post #112
jdietrich wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology is an integral part of cycling, just as it is in motorsport. There are some one-design motorsport racing classes, but they are far from the most popular. Fans like to see innovation, we like to coo over the beautiful new machinery on display. Some of the greatest moments in cycling are directly related to technical progress, most obviously the Obree/Boardman battle for the hour record. On one side a profes…

How about something in between? A rider and a manufacturer can work together to design a new bike for that rider, but for actual races the manufacturer has to build an instance of that bike under supervision of race officials and turn it over to them, and it is that instance that the rider must use in the race. Once the bike is turned over to race officials, no one is allowed unsupervised access. That allows innovati…

Frames are OTS products under current UCI regulations. But fitting that frame to the rider involves a lot of individual tweaking by the team mechanic, so you can't really lock them down ahead of time. But with IR cameras and a reasonable identification system directing post-race (our post-change) physical searches motor cheating should be easy enough to control, very much unlike PEDs.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#182

Post by samstave »

jdietrich wrote: post #87
dclowd9901 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If technology is integral, then why ban motors at all? Small motors and powerful compact energy supplies are technological advancements.

It's a balance between man and machine, between tradition and progress. F1 racing cars would be faster if they replaced the driver with a computer. The fans want to see the skills of the driver tested, so the sport bans common driver aids like traction control and anti-lock brakes. Cycling with motors isn't cycling, it's motorcycling. Allowing motors would change the sport in an undesirable and irrevocable manner. In…

Great comment, thank you.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#183

Post by PeterStuer »

anjc wrote: post #177
PeterStuer wrote: post #155

Let's be clear. This is 100% cheating in races and can not be condoned. Otoh, I don't get the outrage by someone like Eddy Merckx, calling for a lifelong ban on Femke Van Den Driessche , the young female cyclist that was found to have a bike with an seatpost motor in her materials stand. You have to realize Merckx himself was caught several times on doping, receiving only mild punishments, and also one of those ex-ra…

I assume that most people would feel that a motor in a manual bicycle is far more of an egregious rule-break than performance enhancing drugs, which are an aspect of every pro sport in the world. That video of her bike doing donuts on its own makes a complete mockery of the sport. I don't know if she should be banned for life, but certainly her career needs to be affected. 3 year ban or something.

I must be out of touch for sure. For me 'performance enhancing drugs' are not to be accepted as just 'an aspect of pro-sport'. Ruining (young) people's health, on top of making it near impossible for honest athletes to compete, makes drugs far more egregious than material cheats.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#184

Post by mrob »

x0x0 wrote: post #25
Swizec wrote: post #9

What makes cycling so particularly attractive to cheating? Or is cheating in cycling just getting more publicity than in other sports?

I'd bet there's not a single star athlete in any sport that hasn't used performance enhancing drugs in some way. Test doesn't just make your muscles grow; it allows you to train harder and recover faster. The benefits are obvious. Stars have been caught in nearly every single sport you can think of -- football, baseball, track, cycling, distance running, sprinting, swimming, weightlifting, bodybuilding (well, they mo…

What's more, anabolic steroid use causes long term changes to muscle by increasing number of myonuclei (this also happens with natural training, but less effectively). Myonuclei are not lost even after long term muscle atrophy, so it's much easier to regain lost muscle size ("muscle memory"). You keep the benefits long after your cheating has become impossible to prove.

AAS increase myonuclei count:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4160183/

Myonuclei retained during muscle atrophy (animal study, but "muscle memory" is well established in humans too):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2930527/

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#185

Post by 07d046 »

paulmd wrote: post #64

Just take the bike out of the race entirely. Declare a year in advance that the bike will be XYZ model Q so people can train on them, and the race maintains custody of all race bikes, spares, etc. It's already a money-competition to see who can buy the best super-bike. Yes, you have to have a minimum weight, but that just means that you can take a superbike and spend the extra weight applying aerodynamic fairings whe…

It sounds like a good idea, but in reality, the sport of road cycling is and always has been extremely heavily dependent on bicycle manufacturers. You could probably make an argument that professional cycling exists mostly for the purpose of selling bikes. At the moment, five of the eighteen WorldTour teams (they're the top level teams) have names like BMC Racing Team and Trek-Segafredo, and I don't think they'd be very happy about everybody riding unbranded bikes.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#186

Post by benbou09 »

niels_olson wrote: post #47

Am I the only cyclist here? I can't imagine voluntarily putting batteries in my bike on a long, mountainous stage. There's no way the batteries will last, and then I'm stuck with dead weight. And, looking through the actual documentary, I didn't see any incontrovertable thermal proof of a battery in any racer. In the guy posing for a shot, yes, but not in the cyclists laboring up the hill.

They can easily switch bikes pretending that they have a flat tire, or any other issue. IIRC suspects of using batteries have also been seen to switch bikes at suspicious moments.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#187

Post by dagw »

elinchrome wrote: post #111
bobbles wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it'd be like telling marathoners they have to wear a specific model of shoe. There's so many factors that go into comfort etc.

Except that the team get sponsored by a manufacturer, and it's not picked by the riders.

And the manufacturer then works with the team/riders to make sure they get a bike that works for them.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#188

Post by aoeuasdf1 »

PeterStuer wrote: post #183
anjc wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume that most people would feel that a motor in a manual bicycle is far more of an egregious rule-break than performance enhancing drugs, which are an aspect of every pro sport in the world. That video of her bike doing donuts on its own makes a complete mockery of the sport. I don't know if she should be banned for life, but certainly her career needs to be affected. 3 year ban or something.

I must be out of touch for sure. For me 'performance enhancing drugs' are not to be accepted as just 'an aspect of pro-sport'. Ruining (young) people's health, on top of making it near impossible for honest athletes to compete, makes drugs far more egregious than material cheats.

Absolutely, I don't understand how GP can causally accept how drugs damage thousands of people's health while harshly criticizing a different form of cheating which happens to use a different substrate than human flesh.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#189

Post by wobbleblob »

bigiain wrote: post #157
wobbleblob wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? Why not ride a scooter? Not aimed at you personally, but in my commute I'm not happy with all these motorized bicycles on the bike lane nowadays. They're usually ridden by people who don't race seriously, and are now riding 30+ km/h, but doing it as though they're still going 15 km/h: not looking behind them before passing or turning, immediately ringing their bell if you're i…

I also ride motorcycles, but the bicycle I can ride int the lobby and take up the lift to the office - it's quicker door-to-door (over 8km) than the motorcycle, which I sometimes get to park close by but if I don't come in early I end up parking a few blocks away (or _gasp_ paying for parking). I;m with you on the dangers of people who don't have good situational awareness zooming around on electric bikes - but I thi…

It's not so much a comment on their situational awareness, it's that they're riding one vehicle with the style of another. It's behavior that would probably be harmless if they were going half the speed.

If you drive a car as though it is a motorcycle, you're also disrupting traffic and creating danger.

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