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Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

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Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#41

Post by mgnacl »

StreamBright wrote: post #21
mgnacl wrote: post #5

This is great news. Years ago it was considered an indisputable fact that solar (and wind) couldn't compete with the economics of coal and nuclear.

And it is still true, wind will be never be able to compete with nuclear for the simple fact that wind blows when it blows and you need energy when you need it. Unless we develop a technology that is able to cope with the huge spikes that windmills put on the energy grid and store energy in a very efficient way (including gaining the energy back when we need it) wind will not be more than few percentage of the overal…

Ok. Maybe I shouldn't lump wind together with solar.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#42

Post by Aeolun »

teekert wrote: post #32
murukesh_s wrote: post #8

“I sincerely believe that what the West is doing in this respect is anti-development and anti the fight against climate change,” he said, accusing rich countries of charging too much for clean technology." I really don't believe any country is sincere towards climate change. Every country puts their economy before others. So expecting another economy to help you is a foolish assumption.

They certainly are not. Here in the Netherlands we are mostly coal and gas based for electricity yet we want to (unrealistically) ban sales of fossil fuel powered cars. We also raised import taxes on Chinese solar panels, raising the price of solar installations significantly here. It's all for show.

Why would we raise prices on ANY solar panels? That seems self-defeating to me. It doesn't really matter where they come from. Any solar panels are good solar panels.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#43

Post by nickysielicki »

TheLogothete wrote: post #16

So his quote is "I think a new coal plant would give you costlier power than a solar plant" He thinks a NEW plant would give you costlier energy. Secondly, aren't the solar projects subsidized in a BIG way? I have seen many smart people say that solar is a sham. They say it's just an opportunist's play. Entrepreneurs want to get on the government's tit and the politicians are happy to portray themselves as environmen…

> federal subsidies have provided wind and solar developers with as much as $24 billion from 2008 to 2014, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance.

-- http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-05/say-goodby...

Absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine if we spent $4BN annually on nuclear energy and public outreach on how it isn't dangerous?

Yet another case where leftists would rather feel good than do good.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#44

Post by teekert »

Aeolun wrote: post #42
teekert wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They certainly are not. Here in the Netherlands we are mostly coal and gas based for electricity yet we want to (unrealistically) ban sales of fossil fuel powered cars. We also raised import taxes on Chinese solar panels, raising the price of solar installations significantly here. It's all for show.

Why would we raise prices on ANY solar panels? That seems self-defeating to me. It doesn't really matter where they come from. Any solar panels are good solar panels.

To stimulate local production. But local producers just raised their prices. And, when the new import tax was announced it immediately resulted in shortages because companies kept solar panels in stock to sell them after they raised their prices. Sounds like some good lobbying to me.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#45

Post by sambe »

This was in my inbox this morning:

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/18/11415510/solar-power-costs-inno...

Suggesting that costs are not falling fast enough to overcome value deflation. Seems quite US-focussed though. The numbers in the two articles don't seem directly comparable.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#47

Post by nhaehnle »

StreamBright wrote: post #21
mgnacl wrote: post #5

This is great news. Years ago it was considered an indisputable fact that solar (and wind) couldn't compete with the economics of coal and nuclear.

And it is still true, wind will be never be able to compete with nuclear for the simple fact that wind blows when it blows and you need energy when you need it. Unless we develop a technology that is able to cope with the huge spikes that windmills put on the energy grid and store energy in a very efficient way (including gaining the energy back when we need it) wind will not be more than few percentage of the overal…

Note that nuclear is also not exactly grid-friendly, since you cannot quickly change the power output of a nuclear power plant. They are useful for base load and nothing else.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#48

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

davedx wrote: post #29
noisy_boy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct that every country puts their economy before others. However, India is not asking another economy to help them. India can develop its solar energy sector by itself. The west accuses the developing countries to be big polluters since they use less environmentally-friendly means of energy production. Then when countries like India try to subsidize the domestic solar energy market, WTO accuses them of il…

> India can develop its solar energy sector by itself. Until the US sues them and the WTO rules against them. http://in.reuters.com/article/usa-india-solar-idINKCN0QV2FD2...

India wants 8% domestic production, and the US has a cry. What a bully. How does the WTO enforce that sort of ruling? India has The Bomb.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#49

Post by emp_zealoth »

tim333 wrote: post #25
murukesh_s wrote: post #8

“I sincerely believe that what the West is doing in this respect is anti-development and anti the fight against climate change,” he said, accusing rich countries of charging too much for clean technology." I really don't believe any country is sincere towards climate change. Every country puts their economy before others. So expecting another economy to help you is a foolish assumption.

It's ironic that a couple of sentences after "accusing rich countries of charging too much" he's complaining about the WTO ruling "India was illegally supporting domestic over international solar producers." Either the evil foreigners are too expensive or too cheap requiring protection for local producers. Or both at the same time maybe.

Or maybe India does not want to bleed billions away with barely anything to show for it (Yes, they get the infrastructure, but the tech is proprietary and foreign and potentially an endless drain)

Instead they try to develop inhouse production that they own and have to cover the initial capital costs.

There was a theory in ~19th century that Portugal/Spain trading wine for machinery from Great Britain mean it was equal to growing said machinery on fields - Britain shot away technologically and that was that. (I can't find the name of the theory though :/)

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#50

Post by jes5199 »

mgnacl wrote: post #41
StreamBright wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it is still true, wind will be never be able to compete with nuclear for the simple fact that wind blows when it blows and you need energy when you need it. Unless we develop a technology that is able to cope with the huge spikes that windmills put on the energy grid and store energy in a very efficient way (including gaining the energy back when we need it) wind will not be more than few percentage of the overal…

Ok. Maybe I shouldn't lump wind together with solar.

Wind is getting cheaper and more reliable, too. I think I read that it's because we're building bigger wind turbines.
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