Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#171

Post by eggy » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 5:56 AM UTC

pinaceae wrote: post #164

eggy wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer to make the distinction between Corporatism vs. Capitalism in these type of discussions. Corparatism, the big companies and governments as a symbiotic unit, not Capitalism is the problem. I have lived in Montreal with its public health care system for a year, and I now live in a rice farming village in East Java, Indonesia with their public healthcare system, and I grew up in Brooklyn, NY, so I speak from my…

This piece reminds me of the UNA-bomber pamphlets. The formatting is the best part of it :)

@pinaceae I accidentally upvoted you looking for 'reply' button. I admit I wrote this with little sleep after a game jam, and it is lengthy, and not my best writing, but I was responding to the healthcare aspect of @toomuchtodo's thread. Was your remark intended to be snide? I find it offensive in any case that you would compare what I have written to a murderer. I guess with all of your karma here on HN, you find it easy to hide behind your keyboard without much consequence. I am always eager to hear opposing view points, not for argument's sake, but to learn. Hopefully this can turn into a less ad hominem discussion, and we can both walk away a bit better off for it.

[EDIT] - moved reply to @pinaceae, and deleted from under my comment.

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#172

Post by cb18 » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 6:14 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #63

I think the reason we (maybe secretly) take so much satisfaction / schadenfreude at this story is that someone who was so hyped and the darling of Silicon Valley got so much funding and attention. While others who toil away on good ideas, without nearly so many connections and silver spoons, struggle to even get 1 minute of air time with the kind of funders and backers that she got. That, plus seeing the cluelessness…

cluelessness and herd mentality

The guy[0] who pointed out how ridiculous the Rolling Stone UVA rape story was while the press was eating it up, made the point that when people are told what they want to hear they don't ask many questions.

I wonder how much the Grrlpower element around this story dissuaded some obvious questions in the initial reporting around this mess.

[0]http://richardbradley.net/

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#173

Post by sbardle » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 6:44 AM UTC

cb18 wrote: post #168

awl130 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of it is that the founder comes from a very well-connected family and her connections to institutional capital (Draper is a family friend; Lucas) and ridiculously high-level advisors in business (Oracle's Ellison) and the government (Frist) are not generally available to others.

That stuff would seem to make it all the more strange. Was she "playing business" and got in over her head? Was it just an outright scam? Some people have said maybe those big name directors were brought in to grease the tracks as part of a deliberate scam. Who knows? Maybe there will be some answers if this probe turns up anything.

I don't think it was intended to be a scam. The founder raised too much capital on the back of massively inflated expectations. They couldn't deliver (didn't one of the technical team commit suicide in despair over this?) and rather than doing the honest thing and returning the capital, they've ended up creating a Kafkaesque web of shadows and lies. The fundamental issue is overfunding, and it is not limited to this one company, which is why we're in bubble territory once again.

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#174

Post by cb18 » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 6:51 AM UTC

sbardle wrote: post #173

cb18 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stuff would seem to make it all the more strange. Was she "playing business" and got in over her head? Was it just an outright scam? Some people have said maybe those big name directors were brought in to grease the tracks as part of a deliberate scam. Who knows? Maybe there will be some answers if this probe turns up anything.

I don't think it was intended to be a scam. The founder raised too much capital on the back of massively inflated expectations. They couldn't deliver (didn't one of the technical team commit suicide in despair over this?) and rather than doing the honest thing and returning the capital, they've ended up creating a Kafkaesque web of shadows and lies. The fundamental issue is overfunding, and it is not limited to this…

Yeah, I'm not particularly well-versed in this, but I'm inclined to agree. As others have mentioned they were probably just believing there own hype.

There is the question though of at what point did they realize what they were attempting was pushing up against some fundamental limits and just wasn't going to work? Did they think they were going to pivot?

At some point a 'web of shadows and lies' would have to be construed as a scam, wouldn't it? Even if that wasn't the initial intent.

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#175

Post by drij » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 6:53 AM UTC

jondubois wrote: post #120

supernova87a wrote: post #63

I think the reason we (maybe secretly) take so much satisfaction / schadenfreude at this story is that someone who was so hyped and the darling of Silicon Valley got so much funding and attention. While others who toil away on good ideas, without nearly so many connections and silver spoons, struggle to even get 1 minute of air time with the kind of funders and backers that she got. That, plus seeing the cluelessness…

Agreed. Most tech investors are not savvy enough to make informed decisions when it comes to high-tech ventures. A lot of investors rely on other investors' opinions as a barometer for quality/value because they don't understand what they're doing. When you have too many empty suits at the top making all the decisions, then you get into a situation of the blind leading the blind. It is shocking that it can happen at…

Yet they are propped up by a lot of smart people.

It's quite obvious that very few are disproportionally benefiting from modern tech. Unlikely to sustain much longer. Doug Rushkoff has a good talk on this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87TSoqnZass There is a shorter version on BigThink.

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#176

Post by askafriend » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 6:59 AM UTC

mrdmnd wrote: post #67

blakeross wrote: post #21

Here's a television parody I wrote about Theranos that ends right where this story begins... http://pricks.com

I just read a 32 page script and now I want you to write major television shows. Is that your actual job? This is really good.

This dude co-created Firefox and was director of product at FB for a while...definitely not a screenwriting background but smart man nonetheless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Ross

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#177

Post by duncan_bayne » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 7:09 AM UTC

baran1 wrote: post #163

AJ007 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's satisfying to see enforcement against frauds, especially when they are so close to your own industry. I've seen people do sketchy stuff which seemed obviously wrong and publicly apparent for many, many years. Sometimes it finally catches up with them, but other times it does not, and they cash out, are rewarded, and praised by others who have great respect. That is deeply unnerving.

interesting point. enforcement came via government.

That's one of the few things legitimate Government is for: prosecuting people for fraud.

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#178

Post by duncan_bayne » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 7:10 AM UTC

SilasX wrote: post #122

Mz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe some folks feel relieved to have their mental models for actual reality validated. Folks who thought it smelled like vaporware at best, or BS at worst, may not be engaging in schadenfreude so much as "Ha! I knew it! I'm not crazy!" It is possible to have not ugly reasons for finding satisfaction in seeing how this is turning out.

Sufficiently advanced satisfaction at vindication of your worldmodel due to misfortune is indistinguishable from schafenfreude.

Yes. But what is happening here is not "misfortune" in the sense of something undeservedly bad happening to someone.

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#179

Post by drij » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 7:18 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #48

wrong_variable wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

healthcare is a very hard problem. While we in the tech community may find it morbidly entertaining to watch Theranos burn to the ground. Someone out there needs to attack healthcare. The not dying motivation is fairly important.

> Someone out there needs to attack healthcare. All the attacking that needs to be done is political/social, not technical. Want to attack healthcare? Strip middlemen out so that the money flows to providers and researchers (Single payer + pouring additional money into the NIH/NSF, with the results being public domain). All of these YC startups I see "hacking" healthcare (Dr Chrono, HealthSherpa, etc) are just bandai…

Well said.

Re: Theranos Is Subject of Criminal Probe by U.S

#180

Post by ascorbic » Tue, Apr 19, 2016, 7:19 AM UTC

zzz157 wrote: post #89

toomuchtodo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone out there needs to attack healthcare. All the attacking that needs to be done is political/social, not technical. Want to attack healthcare? Strip middlemen out so that the money flows to providers and researchers (Single payer + pouring additional money into the NIH/NSF, with the results being public domain). All of these YC startups I see "hacking" healthcare (Dr Chrono, HealthSherpa, etc) are just bandai…

Single Payer would be great if you can trust the uh, payer. But our government is delightfully corrupt, so I'm sure a lot of people with more rare medical conditions would end up with worse treatment than they can get now.

Single payer manages to function in plenty of countries with worse corruption than the US. The US is one of, if not the only rich country without a universal healthcare system.