Live data from Hacker News

Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

fittish.deadspin.com

161–170 of 307 posts

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#161
post #118
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A clutched flywheel would probably be an advantage in many kinds of terrain. Imagine being able to spin up the flywheel from pedalling or gravity (geared) while going downhill, and then when you hit an uphill section you kick in the gear and pedal easy. It would essentially turn most tracks into "flat" tracks.

No the extra weight of a flywheel plus motor/generator would far outweigh any small advantage. The energy density is just too low for any flywheel small enough to fit on a bike. And the gyroscopic effects would mess with handling.

Bikes already have two really large flywheels.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#162
post #64

Just take the bike out of the race entirely. Declare a year in advance that the bike will be XYZ model Q so people can train on them, and the race maintains custody of all race bikes, spares, etc. It's already a money-competition to see who can buy the best super-bike. Yes, you have to have a minimum weight, but that just means that you can take a superbike and spend the extra weight applying aerodynamic fairings whe…

I don't know a lot about it, but Keirin racing is super highly regulated on the equipment side. Essentially everyone has to have the same bike, with there being only a handful of parts manufacturers that have to make everything conforming to a certain spec. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keirin

Moreover, the spec has held pretty much steady on mid-1970s equipment.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify, my cheater bike" is a $50 eBay 2nd hand mountain bike that I use to commute to work - not something I ride dressed in lycra pretending to be faster than other people... I call it my "cheater bike", 'cause that what it _feels_ like riding it up hills... It makes me laugh everytime I ride it. (I do _occasionally_ enjoy passing mamils on bikes that weigh less then their brekfast going uphill on my way to wor…

Every spandex rider you pass is pretending?

Nope - that was aimed at me not them - but I'm happy to let the stereotype burn stand ;-)

I will say to a first approximation, 100% of the RadioShack lycra liveried carbon fibre Trek riders I see riding through Sydney traffic on a weekday morning are _not_ Lance Armstrong class riders.

(Not any more than I'm a Carl Fogarty or Troy Bayliss class motorcycle racer when I put my racing leathers on and fire up my Ducati Monster...).

It's mostly posing and toys, with an unhealthy dose of brand snobbery and wealth signalling (and being brutally honest, I'm guilty of a little bit of both of those myself - no matter how much I protest that "My Ducati is just a fun toy! I;m not a brand conscious poser! Not like those _other_ Ducati riders...")

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If technology is integral, then why ban motors at all? Small motors and powerful compact energy supplies are technological advancements.

It's a balance between man and machine, between tradition and progress. F1 racing cars would be faster if they replaced the driver with a computer. The fans want to see the skills of the driver tested, so the sport bans common driver aids like traction control and anti-lock brakes. Cycling with motors isn't cycling, it's motorcycling. Allowing motors would change the sport in an undesirable and irrevocable manner. In…

I'd love to see an autonomous F1 series!

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#165
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it'd be like telling marathoners they have to wear a specific model of shoe. There's so many factors that go into comfort etc.

Except that the team get sponsored by a manufacturer, and it's not picked by the riders.

To an extent, and seemingly always with frames. But pro riders often use parts that aren't "sponsership approved" - they just make them all black or similar (rather than have another manfacturer's logo on them)

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm. I love the idea of a logic proof, but is this correct? In the limit the Tesla runs out of battery and you can't push it up the hills.

Interestingly, they race electric motorcycles at the Isle of Mann TT, and the riders all talk about how it's a different game to racing fuel-powered bikes - the bikes are capable of using up all their energy much more quickly that a fuel powered bike, so it becomes as much an efficiency trial as a race, they need to manage their energy consumption to ensure they make it to the finish line (all while still averaging o…

I work on a team that designed two electric motorcycles for the IOM TT Zero. Yes, it's a very different game from the gas races. Aero and energy storage on board are the primary concerns - the top team for the past several years has been successful primarily by packing on ~20-30% more energy than their competitors, so that they can go faster, for longer.

The TT is really an edge case, though, since it is such a long (38mi) and high speed course.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fairly sure the cyclist has a fair amount to do with it. You can't just buy a £10k rig and win the Tour.

If we vary a bicycle race one way, by replacing the bicycles with walking sticks, which require no technology as long as you're willing to put in the time to find one rather than carving it; and vary it another way, by replacing the cyclists with monkeys -- which of those two resulting races (humans with walking sticks vs monkeys with bicycles dimensioned appropriately to the monkeys) is more similar to a "bicycle ra…

> there is no actual line between the use of gears and the use of motors.

There's a very clear line in this case. Cycling is a human powered sport. Battery, gasoline, nuclear, and other power sources are not allowed. This is why mopeds are not allowed. Also prohibited is temporary power storage like a capacitor or spring, which might be used for regenerative braking.

You can put all the motors you want on your bike (IMHO) so long as you don't energize them.

Only a specific set of technology is allowed in a bike race. Under UCI rules, cyclist aren't allowed to use aeroshells, and recumbent bicycles are also prohibited, even though both are much more "similar" to a bicycle than your proposed monkey with a walking stick.

The rules attempt to describe the ineffable concept of what it means to be a "bicycle race". They are meant to encapsulate a mass consensus based on tradition and expectations, including the idea of how to balance "human" and "technology". The rules must also face the challenge of changes in technology, and ever-present rules lawyering. The Lugano charter, mentioned earlier, tries to capture and influence that mass consensus.

There are different interpretations of what a "bicycle race" means, which is why there are different rules organizations. If you want to run a race which allows a monkey with a walking stick to compete, feel free!

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a balance between man and machine, between tradition and progress. F1 racing cars would be faster if they replaced the driver with a computer. The fans want to see the skills of the driver tested, so the sport bans common driver aids like traction control and anti-lock brakes. Cycling with motors isn't cycling, it's motorcycling. Allowing motors would change the sport in an undesirable and irrevocable manner. In…

I'd love to see an autonomous F1 series!

That would actually be very interesting. Instead of drivers competing, it would be code competing.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every spandex rider you pass is pretending?

Nope - that was aimed at me not them - but I'm happy to let the stereotype burn stand ;-) I will say to a first approximation, 100% of the RadioShack lycra liveried carbon fibre Trek riders I see riding through Sydney traffic on a weekday morning are _not_ Lance Armstrong class riders. (Not any more than I'm a Carl Fogarty or Troy Bayliss class motorcycle racer when I put my racing leathers on and fire up my Ducati M…

Well, even among serious hobbyist cyclists, very very few of them are or can be fit for world class pro cycling. Still, it's perfectly okay to use whatever clothes and bikes they enjoy, and it has nothing to do with pretending to be world class.

I imagine a nice lycra suit would actually be comfortable. I don't know, I go with jeans and a T-shirt (when the weather is warm enough for that) but proper cycling wear should help with chafing down there as well as stopping your clothes from dripping sweat while still keeping you warm enough for when you're starting to get exhausted or the weather gets chilly. These problems exist even for non-sporty people cycling to work as long as they ride fast enough for their bodies and have a long enough commute...

Toys? I guess. I would say all hobby equipment is toys.

Re: Thermal camera footage allegedly shows pro cyclists using motors

#170
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we vary a bicycle race one way, by replacing the bicycles with walking sticks, which require no technology as long as you're willing to put in the time to find one rather than carving it; and vary it another way, by replacing the cyclists with monkeys -- which of those two resulting races (humans with walking sticks vs monkeys with bicycles dimensioned appropriately to the monkeys) is more similar to a "bicycle ra…

> there is no actual line between the use of gears and the use of motors. There's a very clear line in this case. Cycling is a human powered sport. Battery, gasoline, nuclear, and other power sources are not allowed. This is why mopeds are not allowed. Also prohibited is temporary power storage like a capacitor or spring, which might be used for regenerative braking. You can put all the motors you want on your bike (…

I thought the monkeys got bikes rather than sticks?
Post reply on HN