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Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

blogs.scientificamerican.com

21–30 of 59 posts

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#21
post #10

I think the author of the article is describing a false dichotomy. The purpose of deliberate practice is to build the underlying knowledge that leads to the creativity and also unlock the intuitive sense that comes from mastery.

There's great creative power in not knowing what you don't know and trying out random things because you have yet to acquire the knowledge of how things are 'supposed' to be done. Knowledge is valuable but at the same time I am so over the mastery movement, which is as much about excluding people from the club by making them think they're never ready enough as it is about giving them to tools to succeed. I started pa…

> There's great creative power in not knowing what you don't know and trying out random things because you have yet to acquire the knowledge of how things are 'supposed' to be done.

That's something people who don't want to learn how things are done like to say, but isn't really true and is most often simply an excuse to avoid having to learn anything; it's commonly heard from amateur musicians for example in an attempt to avoid learning anything labelled "theory". The reality is that what you're likely to do without looking at what other people have done isn't going to be very creative and is likely way way inside the box and simplistic.

You're not really breaking the rules if you don't know the rules you're breaking; flailing around wildly in the dark isn't creative, it's just dumb luck if you happen to do something new. People who are truly creative, know exactly where the box is and ends and why they're breaking outside of it.

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#22
post #10

I think the author of the article is describing a false dichotomy. The purpose of deliberate practice is to build the underlying knowledge that leads to the creativity and also unlock the intuitive sense that comes from mastery.

"...and also unlock the intuitive sense that comes from mastery."

To me, unlocking that aesthetic intuition is the essence of creativity. The other component -- which I recognize most people lack -- is an open-mindedness and willingness to experiment and find art in unexpected places. But even if you have that, you still need the mastery, at least in most disciplines.

If you create lots of sculpture, you'll encounter lots of "problems." And if you persevere, you'll discover lots of "solutions" -- whether they are intended results or happy accidents. Mastery in the arts is simply accumulating a sufficiently large library of problems/solutions, and encountering them often enough that they become mental muscle memory, so that you begin to see potential high-level solutions in the world around you. I believe the art we find most "creative" is, counterintuitively, the art that is discovered or stumbled upon by masters who have developed the skill to spot, excavate, and refine it. (Like Michelangelo seeing his sculpture "emerge" from the marble -- I don't think it was the mystical process it's often made out to be, but rather him recognizing the maximum potential of each quirk of the marble, and intuitively seeing how those potentials might combine into an image.) Contrast that with an artist's attempt to make something "from the ground up," based solely on the application of learned principles. The result may be beautiful or masterful, but probably won't have that true creative spark.

Great art often makes people think "I never would of thought to do that," which to me is kind of tragic, because they may get discouraged from pursuing art, without realizing that the artist never "thought to do that," either. The artist just had the open-mindedness to look around, the developed intuition to spot it, and the technical skill to build it out.

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#23
post #10

I think the author of the article is describing a false dichotomy. The purpose of deliberate practice is to build the underlying knowledge that leads to the creativity and also unlock the intuitive sense that comes from mastery.

Agreed. Ten years ago what could we achieve at say, a hackathon? What could we achieve in the same amount of time today? I don't think our creativity has increased, but our ability to express it probably has, and that's why deliberate practice is a component that expands the whole process.

Our ability to express our creativity. I'll have to think about that for a while.

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#24
I'm someone who fervently studied classical drawing, painting, and sculpture, against the advice of my friends and professors (they told me to stop studying so hard and to start an art career). The problem with over-practice is that you can get caught in mindless habit. It ruined art for me.

It's become very difficult for me to draw pictures that are interesting (if wrong) because I've trained so hard to draw them accurately. It's all by rote.

I've tried to fix it, to rewind. Now when I draw it's with my weak hand, and that has gotten me drawing interesting (if wrong) pictures again.

Another technique I've tried is using cheap materials. I usually get more interesting results from my 3 year olds acrylics than using professional oil paints.

That said, the love of art never came back. That's why, to the extreme confusion of my friends and family, I'm in tech now.

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#25
post #24

I'm someone who fervently studied classical drawing, painting, and sculpture, against the advice of my friends and professors (they told me to stop studying so hard and to start an art career). The problem with over-practice is that you can get caught in mindless habit. It ruined art for me. It's become very difficult for me to draw pictures that are interesting (if wrong) because I've trained so hard to draw them ac…

My karate teacher used to say: "Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect."

It seems like if your goal is to draw correct and interesting faces, you should figure out what in your imperfect weak hand drawings is interesting and practice either keeping that while you perfect your weak hand, or introduce that to your practice with your strong hand.

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#26
post #14

sigh Yet-another-worshipper-of-god-given-creativity. I lost all respect for the article the moment the author drew difference between chess/music/sport and writing/drawing/teaching/"creativity". Frankly, the way I read it, this is just another hero-worshipping article by consultants whose main contribution to the economy involves destroying R&D and shipping jobs oversea. And it truly saddens me that Hacker News keeps…

Not saying you are entirely wrong, but maybe that article isn't totally off either.

For ex. > You know who built Google? People who weren't working in Yahoo or AltaVista.

> Who built Microsoft? Again outsiders out of the Unix or IBM world.

Further, while basketball matches are not same, the skill part - shooting/dribbling/tackling etc. is definitely same.

I am not arguing against expertise though - I know how critical a proper knowledge of algorithms and data structures is to programming.

What I am saying is that while expertise is important - creativity is fundamentally different from expertise.

However you do need expertise to be creative, I have no dreams of making any discoveries in quantum physics any time soon.

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#27
post #24

I'm someone who fervently studied classical drawing, painting, and sculpture, against the advice of my friends and professors (they told me to stop studying so hard and to start an art career). The problem with over-practice is that you can get caught in mindless habit. It ruined art for me. It's become very difficult for me to draw pictures that are interesting (if wrong) because I've trained so hard to draw them ac…

My karate teacher used to say: "Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect." It seems like if your goal is to draw correct and interesting faces, you should figure out what in your imperfect weak hand drawings is interesting and practice either keeping that while you perfect your weak hand, or introduce that to your practice with your strong hand.

It's a lack of control, which produces the happy accident. Accuracy is the problem to begin with. Either I'd learn to pretend to lack control, or I hope my left hand doesn't gain control.

That said, again, I no longer enjoy it so it's a moot point.

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#28

I think the study and practice of fundamental techniques is directly tied to training your creative side. But they're also independent skills, in a sense. I see far too many young artists who focus solely on technique, at the detriment of their creativity. Classical atelier programs can train an individual to create astonishingly life-like representations... but too often lacking entirely in any sort of creativity. O…

First hand, the atelier program can kill your joy. That said, knowing how to render is the only way to get any good at representational art.

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's great creative power in not knowing what you don't know and trying out random things because you have yet to acquire the knowledge of how things are 'supposed' to be done. Knowledge is valuable but at the same time I am so over the mastery movement, which is as much about excluding people from the club by making them think they're never ready enough as it is about giving them to tools to succeed. I started pa…

> There's great creative power in not knowing what you don't know and trying out random things because you have yet to acquire the knowledge of how things are 'supposed' to be done. That's something people who don't want to learn how things are done like to say, but isn't really true and is most often simply an excuse to avoid having to learn anything; it's commonly heard from amateur musicians for example in an atte…

I think that people who are creative have to know the history and repertoire in order for their brain to make the new connections to make the new thing, but I think that creative leap when your brain makes those new connections is not something an artist controls directly. It comes from experience and being "into something", and random accident from experimentation.

The artist doesn't necessarily know why something is new though, even if they have a lot of experience, it's just a primal response they get to a new piece of music they are working on for example, and then they can try to analyze it after the fact. Most artists I know aren't as methodical as the way you seem to describe, it's a lot more intuition and experimentation, and then because of their vast listening experience their brains are adjusted so that they aren't satisfied with existing stuff

Re: Creativity Is Much More Than 10k Hours of Deliberate Practice

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's great creative power in not knowing what you don't know and trying out random things because you have yet to acquire the knowledge of how things are 'supposed' to be done. Knowledge is valuable but at the same time I am so over the mastery movement, which is as much about excluding people from the club by making them think they're never ready enough as it is about giving them to tools to succeed. I started pa…

> There's great creative power in not knowing what you don't know and trying out random things because you have yet to acquire the knowledge of how things are 'supposed' to be done. That's something people who don't want to learn how things are done like to say, but isn't really true and is most often simply an excuse to avoid having to learn anything; it's commonly heard from amateur musicians for example in an atte…

While I'm sure there is some of this mentality among unpolished artists, I think you're wrongly conflating reproducibility of quality with creativity itself. A creative solution is often arrived at by the ability to generate a large number of ideas, iterating upon each or combining them in a novel fashion. The simplicity or lack of inhibition in the approach of an amateur can allow for this volume, because the amateur is not limited by the constraints of a more formal practice. These purposely hem in what is possible in exchange for useful constraints that result in work of a reliable quality. Successful artists have to learn balance the pursuit of technique without being stifled by its preciousness, in the same way that amateurs have to balance novelty with reproducibility. Excess in either case tends to result in poor work.
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