Live data from Hacker News

For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

broadly.vice.com

351–360 of 402 posts

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#351
post #255

Pretty obvious from looking at the points and age of this posting that some people have flagged it. I hope some admins are considering removing those flags. Users who flag a post like this shouldn't really have flagging privs.

I think flags shouldn't work after submission's score gets past some threshold. Real flagworthy crap doesn't receive hundreds of votes.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Asking them five times is almost certainly harassment. Yet this behavior is romanticised is popular culture, and has been from the dawn of time up to and including the present: Oddyseus and Helen of Troy, Shakespeare's "The taming of the shrew", tons of Fred Astaire movies, as well as modern movies like "Ghost", "Life is beautiful", "Chasing Amy", TV shows like "Sex and the city"... I could go on. Lucikly I don't n…

Thank you for not linking to TV Tropes. I've lost a great many hours to that site. :)

Yes, it was a deliberate non-link ;)

(Oblig. http://xkcd.com/609 )

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#353
post #255

Pretty obvious from looking at the points and age of this posting that some people have flagged it. I hope some admins are considering removing those flags. Users who flag a post like this shouldn't really have flagging privs.

An alternative explanation for sudden drops is the "flame war detector", which demotes stories that are attracting more than a certain ratio of "discussion" to upvotes (and possibly other factors).

With more comments than upvotes, that might be the case here: http://hnrankings.info/11519205/

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A shirt that depicts women as objects or objectized women is just plain wrong. I do not care about the celebration.

In a more general note about the downvotes about sexism: https://medium.com/@sh4ka/sexism-and-hacker-news-6678897fccc...

Demonstrates that context is everything.

Do most of the people reading this thread think it is sexist?

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#355

There is an interesting side effect to these issues that I think doesn't get discussed very often. I try to be as aware as possible of these issues in the hope that I can make sure that I'm not part of the problem. As such I make a concerted effort to give anyone that works for me equal opportunities for advancement, and when in doubt I try to err on the side of the person who's in a marginalized class. I also try to…

Please consider reading the following:

http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-gray-zon...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7407280

I think men like you are a big part of the problem and a frustratingly difficult part to try to identify and combat. I have sympathy for the difficult position it puts you in, but your behavior de facto freezes women out and denies them opportunities to make critical connections that are a big part of the problem. I would rather see a world in which people were pretty meh about coworkers getting hot and heavy together and women and men could talk to each other comfortably than the situation we have now.

Best.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that once it has worked out for folks, it's hard to say, "You shouldn't have done that." But aren't there still costs? Everyone else in the company now gets to wonder whether the lower-ranking person's raises and promotions are due to merit or just because they're in a relationship with the boss. Beyond that, the bigger issue to my eye is that it doesn't always work out. If your boss flirts with you and you a…

All of these scenarios are possible but often they are presented as a certainty. This speaks more towards fears and feelings; I'd be interested to see studies that claim most office romances turn out badly. People are being trained to make these leaps even if there are no facts to back them up. You might _feel_ your boss is treating you differently because she asked you out, but should we all adjust behavior to accom…

It feels to me like you're conflating general "office romances" with the more narrow "supervisor/employee romances". I've been focused entirely on the latter (which fits the main topic here: senior faculty members pursuing sexual or romantic relationships with students, often in their own labs).

My reason for preferring an outright ban on supervisor/employee relationships is that they can have nasty effects on the entire workplace culture, that they can be exploitative or feel exploitative, and that based on many reports neither of these effects is particularly rare. Good leadership can't only be fair, it has to also cultivate a belief among employees that it is fair.

Is there a cost to this in lost opportunities for positive relationships? Absolutely. But even the highest-level executive won't have more than a few thousand people declared "off limits" to them by this: surely that's a drop in the bucket compared to the total population of the cities or communities where they live.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#357
post #355

There is an interesting side effect to these issues that I think doesn't get discussed very often. I try to be as aware as possible of these issues in the hope that I can make sure that I'm not part of the problem. As such I make a concerted effort to give anyone that works for me equal opportunities for advancement, and when in doubt I try to err on the side of the person who's in a marginalized class. I also try to…

Please consider reading the following: http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-gray-zon... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7407280 I think men like you are a big part of the problem and a frustratingly difficult part to try to identify and combat. I have sympathy for the difficult position it puts you in, but your behavior de facto freezes women out and denies them opportunities to make critical conn…

I think your word choice is poor here.

He is a human being with a reasonable position, especially if they have a family to support. I don't think its good to "identify" and "combat" people like this. In fact it seems dehumanizing when what we need is more empathy and understanding to get to root issues.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#358
post #338
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most states also forbid sexual harassment.

On a civil law level. Wire tapping is a criminal offense.

At the same time, the DA that attempts to try that case would be crucified. Especially if the harassment was bad.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#359

this: > Universities, Mia notes, have protocols for dealing with complaints of sexual harassment seems part of the problem. sexual harassment should be a 'go straight to police' offence, not a hr reprimand. if the problem is as widespread as it's made in the article, it cannot correct from within.

Many (but not all) types of sexual harassment in the workplace aren't go to the police illegal in and of themselves. I know someone who was fired from his job for saying something extremely inappropriate and sexual to a coworker. Did he deserve to get fired? Hell yeah. Does he deserve criminal charges? Hell no.

Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare

#360
post #357
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please consider reading the following: http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-gray-zon... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7407280 I think men like you are a big part of the problem and a frustratingly difficult part to try to identify and combat. I have sympathy for the difficult position it puts you in, but your behavior de facto freezes women out and denies them opportunities to make critical conn…

I think your word choice is poor here. He is a human being with a reasonable position, especially if they have a family to support. I don't think its good to "identify" and "combat" people like this. In fact it seems dehumanizing when what we need is more empathy and understanding to get to root issues.

You are, no doubt, right. But there seems to be no path forward without offending someone. Simply being a woman in a man's world with an opinion seems to set off plenty of people. I do my best to be respectful, but there comes a point past which I can choose to be so respectful of the delicate sensibilities of men that I never say anything ever or I can risk what is often a shitshow no matter how carefully I word it.

Hopefully, the article I linked to says it better. I am the author. It did make the front page of HN when someone other than me chose to post it here. I believe it to be one of the more even handed approaches to the problem space.

Post reply on HN