Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook will set indie gaming back 5 years

goplexian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–28 of 28 posts

Re: Facebook will set indie gaming back 5 years

#21

Post by jeff18 »

"Facebook is going to set indie gaming back 5 years, developers must follow the money, and nobody can deny that there is sick cash to be had playing the viral lottery on Facebook"

I can cite many examples of people who have abandoned PC gaming for XBLA, PSN, Wiiware, Flash gaming, Unity web gaming, or the iPhone, I don't know of a single guy who has jumped onto Facebook. So the fundamental thesis of hardcore indie developers being tempted by the lucrative cash piles to be had in Facebook apps seems pretty dubious.

The other contrarian point I'd like to make is that Facebook has actually been really kind to indie developers. Facebook Pages are huge for self promotion: Facebook is consistently a top referrer for our game, even though it is a traditional, PC/Mac/Linux downloadable game (that's not even released yet).

Re: Facebook will set indie gaming back 5 years

#22

Post by harshpotatoes »

I think the author is upset because developers are slowly learning there is this giant demographic of people who like playing games, who aren't 16-30 year old males, and these people have no problem paying for games. I think he's upset because games used to be made with only his demographic in mind, and now his group is being shifted back in how many games are developed for them.

Re: Facebook will set indie gaming back 5 years

#23

Post by jfarmer »

patio11 wrote: post #18
jfarmer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ask somebody who builds for it to describe the specifics, but there are now throttles and some sort of system where you earn the right to use the viral channels." All of that is going away in five days. No more requests, no more notifications, etc. Nobody knows what will happen! Pandemonium! Haha.

Memo to self: add "Do not build for platforms which could pull the rug from under you" to list of tips for founders with day jobs. That sort of thing would crunch my business like a tin can if it happened to me in the wrong week. (Actually, I think all weeks are the wrong week for something that big.)

Facebook has done this at least three times previously. This time was better than previous because they actually laid out a roadmap with specific dates.

http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Developer_Road...

So, anyone who hasn't factored this into the development model yet is, well, dead or going to die the next time it happens. :)

Re: Facebook will set indie gaming back 5 years

#24

Post by benologist »

teej wrote: post #20
benologist wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't really speak for social games but I can elaborate on the casual side of gaming .... when we upload to sites like Kongregate and Newgrounds we submit ourselves to the mercy of a very vast, very diverse, very easily unsatisfied and very unappreciative audience ... and we need about 8 out of 10 people to like our game, and there's no second chance. Sometimes only a handful of games satisfy these requirements a m…

As someone on who has been on the side of social games for a long time, it's absolutely not about getting it right the first time. It has always been about two things - getting lucky, and moving fast. Playfish tried to do a lot of games "right the first time" but weren't set up to quickly fix their mistakes and have ended up performing terribly.

That's an interesting difference ... with casual games we have a really short window of opportunity to execute significant change.

On ratings-focused sites like Kongregate and Newgrounds we might literally only have hours to measure, judge and react to feedback and bugs before our game slips off the new games page or the ratings-damage is too great to recover from. And that's if we're lucky enough to be given a reason why "this game sucks 1/5" heh.

On the rest of the internet we have the issue of games being distributed beyond our control, once a game goes 'wild' it gets to 100s of sites and there's really only a couple of options for pushing out updates - hot load an x megabyte swf to millions, or Mochi's LiveUpdate system which requires their ads (sometimes we're not allowed to use ads).

Re: Facebook will set indie gaming back 5 years

#25

Post by goplexian »

jfarmer wrote: post #2

My response to this sentiment is: STFU, then, and make one of these crappy games. Then you'll have millions of dollars to make whatever kind of other awesome games you'll want forever and ever.

Because I hate crappy viral games that make tones of money, I should shut up and make a crappy viral game in hopes of making tones of money?

No thanks.

If you had just said "Shut up and make your own game" I could respect that sentiment even though it is quite rude and basically shuts me down from having an opinion which (strangely) I thought was one of my rights.

But suggesting that I start making viral games for Facebook after I go through the trouble of writing an article explaining that I hate those types of games is just stupid.

Re: Facebook will set indie gaming back 5 years

#26

Post by jfarmer »

goplexian wrote: post #25
jfarmer wrote: post #2

My response to this sentiment is: STFU, then, and make one of these crappy games. Then you'll have millions of dollars to make whatever kind of other awesome games you'll want forever and ever.

Because I hate crappy viral games that make tones of money, I should shut up and make a crappy viral game in hopes of making tones of money? No thanks. If you had just said "Shut up and make your own game" I could respect that sentiment even though it is quite rude and basically shuts me down from having an opinion which (strangely) I thought was one of my rights. But suggesting that I start making viral games for Fa…

It's not stupid. It's rational. You're lamenting the fact that the market is demanding games that you, as a craftsman, think are crap. Crappity crap crap.

On the other hand, if you make one of these simple, crappy games and it is successful, you will have millions of dollars that you can use to fund any type of game development you want.

I suppose you see that as compromising your principles or something. In any case, the fact that you "hate it" is an artificial barrier to your own success. If you really believe it's easy for you to make one of these games (and therefore easy to make millions of dollars), why wouldn't you?

I'm sure you'll rationalize it by saying "I don't want that kind of success" or "If I have to compromise my beliefs about game design even once to be successful, I don't want it."

Well, alright, that's fine, but you should see how you're limiting yourself strategically. The market is screaming right now, "HEY! MAKE THESE GAMES!" You're free to ignore it.

As for being rude, well, your article insulted a lot of quality game designers I know whose work, I'd wager, has touched more lives than yours ever has or will. So I'm not too worried about being rude, especially since I think your attitude is what's crappy, not these games.

Re: Facebook will set indie gaming back 5 years

#27

Post by wlievens »

jeff18 wrote: post #21

"Facebook is going to set indie gaming back 5 years, developers must follow the money, and nobody can deny that there is sick cash to be had playing the viral lottery on Facebook" I can cite many examples of people who have abandoned PC gaming for XBLA, PSN, Wiiware, Flash gaming, Unity web gaming, or the iPhone, I don't know of a single guy who has jumped onto Facebook. So the fundamental thesis of hardcore indie de…

Slightly off-topic: your upcoming game seems pretty cool; especially the setting. I've had the comic in my RSS feed since months and I was really thrilled to see it come alive the past few weeks.

Re: Facebook will set indie gaming back 5 years

#28

Post by jeff18 »

wlievens wrote: post #27
jeff18 wrote: post #21

"Facebook is going to set indie gaming back 5 years, developers must follow the money, and nobody can deny that there is sick cash to be had playing the viral lottery on Facebook" I can cite many examples of people who have abandoned PC gaming for XBLA, PSN, Wiiware, Flash gaming, Unity web gaming, or the iPhone, I don't know of a single guy who has jumped onto Facebook. So the fundamental thesis of hardcore indie de…

Slightly off-topic: your upcoming game seems pretty cool; especially the setting. I've had the comic in my RSS feed since months and I was really thrilled to see it come alive the past few weeks.

Thanks! We are about to release a pretty sweet update to the comic in the next couple days.
Post reply on HN