Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Netherlands is making moves to ban all non-electric vehicle sales by 2025

sciencealert.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 73 posts

Re: The Netherlands is making moves to ban all non-electric vehicle sales by 2025

#51

Post by phpnode »

vonmoltke wrote: post #39
Houshalter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it depends on the design of the car, but 40 is an average. >How does a number on a sign affect how much fuel I'm burning? I never claimed that it would. I said "Driving at the speed limit will definitely save you more fuel than speeding.", which is definitely true. If you speed you are going faster and using more fuel.

> I never claimed that it would. I said "Driving at the speed limit will definitely save you more fuel than speeding.", which is definitely true. If you speed you are going faster and using more fuel. That statement has nothing to do with the speed limit, though. It may be trivially true, but adding the speed limit ties an irrelevant variable to it. Speed limit is a semi-arbitrary number that has nothing to do with h…

The implication is that driving over the speed limit is likely, on average, to be less fuel efficient than obeying it. Due to the laws of human nature, very few people drive significantly below the speed limit, and very few people prioritise their fuel economy over everything else so this translates to a reasonable guideline.

Re: The Netherlands is making moves to ban all non-electric vehicle sales by 2025

#52

Post by theandrewbailey »

gambiting wrote: post #41
sgift wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not hard, but usually not worth it as far as I remember: You have to pay the VAT of your home country when you import it, which is often one of the biggest difference between car prices within the EU.

The difference is negligible. When you buy a car coming from another EU country, you pay the price without VAT(the dealership has to give you an ex-vat invoice). Then when you register it, you pay the VAT of the country where you register the vehicle. Most countries in EU have VAT between 20 to 23%, so in the worst case, you are paying 3% more, in the best case, you are saving 3%.

That's how car taxes work in the US. I bought my car off my parents in Ohio, and registered in (and paid taxes in) Pennsylvania. I'm not sure what Tesla does in pro-dealership states to get around the "not being able to sell cars or have dealerships here" problem, but the tax system would probably be the same.

Re: The Netherlands is making moves to ban all non-electric vehicle sales by 2025

#53

Post by djschnei »

rlidwka wrote: post #48
arijun wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electric vehicles are many times simpler than their gas-powered cousins What does engine complexity have to do with driving complexity? I imagine that a computer would drive a car using interfaces analogous to those we use; namely gas, brake, steer (and I guess a shifter to put it in drive).

Potentially, higher acceleration/deceleration would allow a computer to use simpler collision prevention algorithms. Also, there is no shifter there.

improved acceleration/deceleration aren't givens for electric vehicles. You shouldn't let the Teslas cloud your perception here - usually they are slower than their internal combustion peers. Also, no reason for a self driving algorithm to worry about shifting. In an automatic car do you worry about shifting?

Re: The Netherlands is making moves to ban all non-electric vehicle sales by 2025

#54

Post by Alupis »

Houshalter wrote: post #31
vonmoltke wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually it's more to do with air resistance. It increases exponentially at higher speeds. You also don't burn less by driving really slow, since the engine burns some amount of fuel just by running at any speed. 40 mph is the sweet spot, supposedly. Actually, the sweet spot is dependent on the design and condition of the car. I'm not sure where exactly it is, but I think you are right that it is usually around 40.…

Of course it depends on the design of the car, but 40 is an average. >How does a number on a sign affect how much fuel I'm burning? I never claimed that it would. I said "Driving at the speed limit will definitely save you more fuel than speeding.", which is definitely true. If you speed you are going faster and using more fuel.

> Of course it depends on the design of the car, but 40 is an average.

Funny, I had always heard 55 MPH was the "sweet spot".

Drag Coefficient will be dramatically different on all car models.

Driving slower can have as dramatic of an impact on MPG as driving too fast. Your engine has to work quite hard to keep the car moving in both cases. Once up to a cruising speed, your engine will have to work less hard (and burn less gas) to maintain momentum. This is why your foot is not on the accelerator pedal harder while cruising on the highway when compared to driving on the streets. This is also part of the reason overdrive gears work (From a dead-stop, you dump the most unburned hydrocarbons (as a bunch of fuel is dumped into the chamber suddenly). So, constant highway driving will be more efficient than a slower city-street driver.

Re: The Netherlands is making moves to ban all non-electric vehicle sales by 2025

#55

Post by syncsynchalt »

frederikvs wrote: post #24
johnm1019 wrote: post #18

In this case I think the approach taken by the US is better -- set aggressive fuel economy standards and let the market either a.) figure out new technologies for much better fuel economy b.) figure out electric vehicles are cheaper My point here specifically is not that the numbers the US chose are correct (let that be for another debate), but that this method of effectively restricting/"banning" gasoline cars is be…

c.) lie and cheat their way around the standards

To be fair they've been caught and are facing enormous punitive fines.

Re: The Netherlands is making moves to ban all non-electric vehicle sales by 2025

#56

Post by cname »

mywittyname wrote: post #45

So what are people to do when there's no suitable electric vehicle that fills their need? I'm thinking mostly about businesses that need trucks and vans for shipping and distribution. It's going to be a long time before we have all electric Ranger & Transit lineup. The Dutch market is far too small for any large company to justify moving towards this. So, unless the rest of Europe moves in lockstep with them, this me…

The language in the article is ambiguous. There are a places where it uses "vehicle" and other places where it uses "car". The latter seems to indicate this is aimed at non-commercial passenger vehicles.

The article also says petrol fueled vehicles won't be forced off the road on 1 Jan 2025, so there may be a longer transition period for businesses that can maintain their fleets.

In any case, there are usually exceptions for commercial vehicles. Maybe they'll allow (some) commercial vehicles to be hybrids, or maybe they'll allow exemptions where it makes sense.

Re: The Netherlands is making moves to ban all non-electric vehicle sales by 2025

#57

Post by [deleted] »

mywittyname wrote: post #45

So what are people to do when there's no suitable electric vehicle that fills their need? I'm thinking mostly about businesses that need trucks and vans for shipping and distribution. It's going to be a long time before we have all electric Ranger & Transit lineup. The Dutch market is far too small for any large company to justify moving towards this. So, unless the rest of Europe moves in lockstep with them, this me…

[deleted]

Re: The Netherlands is making moves to ban all non-electric vehicle sales by 2025

#60

Post by dTal »

mywittyname wrote: post #45

So what are people to do when there's no suitable electric vehicle that fills their need? I'm thinking mostly about businesses that need trucks and vans for shipping and distribution. It's going to be a long time before we have all electric Ranger & Transit lineup. The Dutch market is far too small for any large company to justify moving towards this. So, unless the rest of Europe moves in lockstep with them, this me…

I agree with your comment and my downvote was a misplaced click. Sorry!
Post reply on HN