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How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

jeff-vogel.blogspot.com

41–50 of 94 posts

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Crazy" even when not strictly about mental health implies lack of self-control or good judgement, which will be insulting for people who pride themselves in self-control and good judgement. "Weird" or "bizarre" is perhaps a little more neutral.

Except that this time next week / month / year someone will take huge offence to the terms 'weird' or 'bizarre'. This is a witch hunt and the target is any word that can be used to differentiate. We need to remember that we do not have a right to be offended.

No, stop that line of thinking. Please.

When someone is called crazy, they're making a parallel to a crazy person on a train screaming about how they didn't take their meds.

When someone who has legitimate mental health issues is called crazy, it makes light of a very serious issue that's incredibly difficult. It has next to nothing to do with being offended. We all accept that we have issues that we're mostly able to manage, but you're completely simplifying the problem in an incredibly brazen and unempathetic way.

If you want to see a sample of it, just check out /r/bipolar. When I was first diagnosed, I spent about a week there, but had to stop going because it was too intense.

Completely coincidentally, here's the second post from the top right now that shows just how hard it is to fit in socially: https://www.reddit.com/r/bipolar/comments/4f4se2/i_believe_f...

I feel like I need to invest more in forming connections with people, learning to not feel so extremely uncomfortable around people, becoming interesting and fun to be around as a person, but I don't know how to find strength, energy, and time to do so.

This is a very common attitude.

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#42
post #15

There's a simple solution: Don't use real names online. That eliminates meatspace threats, if done properly. And then compartmentalize. For risky stuff, create new personas. In worst case, just burn them down.

Personally? meatspace threats aren't the problem for me. Which is important, because I think that in a lot of contexts, your "real name" conveys a lot of credibility. I mean, sure, _why could write a technical book and have it be accepted without a real name, but I'm not nearly that good. I also, uh, I really like bragging about the technical book in real life, so compartmentalization would remove some of the reward I get. It would probably make me a less irritating person, too, but hey, I'm talking about me here.

The part of the article that really struck home for me:

> They all have something in common. It never fails to amaze me, but a single mean email or bad review can send them into a spiral. Like, they'll still be obsessing over it days later. I think, "Wow. After all these years, they still won't let this stuff roll off of them?" And then it happens to me.

It's largely an emotional issue... but when I create, and I think when most people create, it is for largely emotional reasons, too.

Of course, it's also, uh, well, I feel kind of embarrassed for admitting that anonymous words can make me feel anything. And it's not like I want to silence thoughtful criticism, even if it's hurtful. (I think there's a line in there somewhere; part of that line is content... how well thought-out is the meanness, and part of it is repetition.)

>Suppose someone gets angry at me for what I write. He gets a bunch of friends together and they give my games bad reviews on Steam and iTunes.

>This is really mean and genuinely harmful, and there is not a damn thing I can do about it. They will cost me earnings, and I have no recourse. They walked up, punched me in the nose, and strolled away, and I could do nothing.

which isn't something I've personally experienced, but is something I feel some fear of. Probably not as much as a real creator would feel, just because creating, for me, is almost entirely social; my living expenses come from elsewhere.

I mean, yes, I think that there is a place for a nom de plume, especially if you are working in two different areas with two different or conflicting generally accepted social mores, That helps, I think, mostly by setting expectations with your readers; It's not so much that your pen name is especially secret, but that it gives the reader an idea what to expect, and if they don't like the sort of thing you do under one particular name, well, there's a convenient way to avoid it. Ian Banks and Ian M Banks are a particularly not-secret example of this; choose the former if you like literary fiction, the later if you like science fiction, and it's pretty obvious that if you just enjoy the man's writing more than you care about genre, you can pick both.

More commonly, you see writers penning erotica under an assumed name, and then later, after they have made it with regular novels, their real name is revealed, like Anne Rice/ Anne Rampling

But... the point here is that if I'm creating for public consumption, and a big part of the return is the public reputation, then compartmentalizing, sure, can make the loss of one persona less catastrophic, but it's still a pretty big deal, and for a lot of people, changes the equation to the point where it doesn't make sense to have a public persona at all.

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#43
post #15

There's a simple solution: Don't use real names online. That eliminates meatspace threats, if done properly. And then compartmentalize. For risky stuff, create new personas. In worst case, just burn them down.

Most people are terrible at OPSEC. If your online persona is used long enough and garners enough attention your real identity will almost certainly become known (extreme example: Ross Ubricht). This is compounded by the fact that people tend to say things they wouldn't otherwise say if they knew they weren't anonymous. The other issue is it's harder to capitalize on the reputation of online personas in the real world…

> The other issue is it's harder to capitalize on the reputation of online personas in the real world, if you care about that sort of thing.

That's the trade-off, and it's why I don't sympathize too much with people who go online to get publicity, then complain about the negative attention that comes along with it.

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#44
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that this time next week / month / year someone will take huge offence to the terms 'weird' or 'bizarre'. This is a witch hunt and the target is any word that can be used to differentiate. We need to remember that we do not have a right to be offended.

No, stop that line of thinking. Please. When someone is called crazy, they're making a parallel to a crazy person on a train screaming about how they didn't take their meds. When someone who has legitimate mental health issues is called crazy, it makes light of a very serious issue that's incredibly difficult. It has next to nothing to do with being offended. We all accept that we have issues that we're mostly able t…

I'm bipolar too, I appreciate you trying to educate people. This place is pretty hostile when it comes to understanding.

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#45
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decent treatment: https://www.quora.com/Is-crazy-a-slur Personally, crazy the noun is worse than crazy the adjective.

Utterly unpersuasive. The reasoning in that Quora response means that "harasser" and "wrong" are also slurs, because the Quora response equates denigration with "slur territory". As an ongoing fact in my life, I've noticed that (a) I use words like "crazy" in broad and insulting ways, and that (b) some people seem to complain about it. And I'm open to being persuaded that I ought to change my ways. But I haven't yet…

You know, I used to be really arrogant, but then I started listening to people that try to tell me things, and now I just wish I'd started doing that sooner, because I regret spending so much of my life as a bigot.

Crazy means insane, like belongs in a hospital.

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#46
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decent treatment: https://www.quora.com/Is-crazy-a-slur Personally, crazy the noun is worse than crazy the adjective.

Utterly unpersuasive. The reasoning in that Quora response means that "harasser" and "wrong" are also slurs, because the Quora response equates denigration with "slur territory". As an ongoing fact in my life, I've noticed that (a) I use words like "crazy" in broad and insulting ways, and that (b) some people seem to complain about it. And I'm open to being persuaded that I ought to change my ways. But I haven't yet…

First about violence: You're wrong. Mental illness does not predict violent behaviour. Someone with a mental illness is not more likely to hurt you than someone without a mental illness. This is very clear from all the statistics we have. You not knowing this is a concrete example of your ignorance of mental illness.

The fact that you don't care that vulnerable people are frequently the victims of violent crime (and partly because they've been dehumanised by people calling them crazies) says more about you than it does about predicting violence.

> If I hear someone say "that's crazy", I assume they mean "that's weird and I disapprove". (I haven't quite nailed it down. There's a bit more nuance here, in that if someone says "that's crazy", and then someone else says "it's not crazy, it's evil", then you can imagine the first persona conceding the point... so clearly "crazy" sometimes implies a certain degree of helplessness in the bad-weirdness.)

But in this thread someone isn't saying "these behaviours are crazy", they're saying "these people are crazies".

I don't care what language you use. But you need to know, so that you can make an informed choice about the language that you use, that when you use words like "crazies" to describe groups of people it's the same to many people as someone who says things like "I got jewed on that deal", or "those uppity negros". You're on the wrong side of history, and it makes you sound like an ignorant bigot. If you don't care about that then go ahead, but if you do care what people think of you then you might want to use different language.

Another reason to stop: by describing people who do things you don't understand as "crazies" you're promoting stigma against mental illness. Since you want people with mental illness to get treatment it seems weird to create a culture that makes it harder for them to do so.

Another reason: Severe mental illness (bipolar, psychosis, borderline) affect about 5% of the population. This will include people you know, or their relatives. You're inadvertently insulting your friends. You probably don't want to accidentally offend people you know. One of the reasons they haven't told you that they (or their loved ones ) are medicated is because your views are stigmatising and discriminatory.

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#47
post #28
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a slur there.

I have bipolar II and definitely see it as a slur. See, I go into hypomanic states and do things that are what you'd typically see from a "crazy" person. Buzzing my head, getting into bad financial situations, intense obsession, etc. When I do those things, I'm usually aware that what I'm doing isn't 'normal', but since the rationalizations flow pretty thick, the corrections are nearly impossible to act on. Medicatio…

I have bipolar II and definitely see it as a slur.

So what do you suggest we call people that behave far outside society's bounds and are impervious to reason?

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#48
post #31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Utterly unpersuasive. The reasoning in that Quora response means that "harasser" and "wrong" are also slurs, because the Quora response equates denigration with "slur territory". As an ongoing fact in my life, I've noticed that (a) I use words like "crazy" in broad and insulting ways, and that (b) some people seem to complain about it. And I'm open to being persuaded that I ought to change my ways. But I haven't yet…

Sorry for the double post, I just wanted to comment on your last point. Holy shit. Just because someone has a mental health issue doesn't mean they're violent. Everyone I know who has mental health issues are the friendliest people I know. This is the exact sort of attitude that makes issues with HR incredibly difficult. And trust me, it is unbearably difficult . I can't explain how many times and how frustrating it…

I don't mind the double-post, but I'll reply to both of them at once.

I have mental health issues. Nearly everyone I care about has mental health issues. Some of those issues are moderately serious problems, some are minor annoyances. It sucks having problems. I'm sad you have problems. I'm sad I have problems. I hope your problems resolve themselves, and/or you learn better coping strategies, and that life is as nice to you as possible.

But none of that changes my perspective that it's reasonable for me to characterize the world around me. And I have a limited cognitive budget. There's a whole bunch I don't know about the world, including mental illness, so I by no means assume that my model is terrific, but I still need to make choices. Y'know, I don't know if it will rain today, but I still need to decide what jacket to wear. Identifying other human behaviour as extreme is useful. Identifying other human behaviour as harmful is useful. Identifying other human behaviour as extreme-and-alarming-in-ways-that-seem-like-maybe-they're-mental-illness is useful. Knowing more would be better, but I've got a whole bunch of shit to learn, and this is seriously not my top priority. Based on all of the above, it seems to me that the only sane thing to do is sometimes identify other people's behaviour as crazy. And since I live in a city, with millions of people, most of the people I meet get an instant shallow analysis, because otherwise I wouldn't get anything done. So for my limited-cognitive-budget purposes, some people are "that crazy person". I don't know if I've never called a person "a crazy", but I don't see a problem with doing so.

To your point in this comment, I never for a moment said that "just because someone has a mental health issue, they're violent". I encourage you to read more carefully. I said that arguing about their probability of victimhood is a logical fail that does not help address fears that such-and-such a person is a threat. It has no predictive value, and will not persuade most people that have the concern in the first place.

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#49

> Crazies in General I wonder if, given the social unacceptability of mental illness, it will ever be socially unacceptable to slur mental illness.

I would describe very few mentally ill people as crazy.

I would describe all people described as crazy as mentally ill, unless we're talking about "gay doesn't mean homosexual, it just means dumb", which is also bad.

Re: How I Deal with Harassment, Abuse, and Crazies in General

#50
post #47
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have bipolar II and definitely see it as a slur. See, I go into hypomanic states and do things that are what you'd typically see from a "crazy" person. Buzzing my head, getting into bad financial situations, intense obsession, etc. When I do those things, I'm usually aware that what I'm doing isn't 'normal', but since the rationalizations flow pretty thick, the corrections are nearly impossible to act on. Medicatio…

I have bipolar II and definitely see it as a slur. So what do you suggest we call people that behave far outside society's bounds and are impervious to reason?

Seriously mentally ill, needs medical attention.
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