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When Lobbying was Illegal

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101–110 of 165 posts

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to actually increase the number of politicians so that each district is small enough that you don't need money to get elected (you need districts of about 25,000 voters). The crazy thing is it doesn't even cost anymore money because as you increase the politicians you take away their staff. If you want to know more about this idea see [1]. 1. http://www.thirty-thousand.org

What would the financial impact of having 20x as many representatives be after benefits and pensions and reducing staff?

Probably very little directly, but getting rid of the cause of all the corruption then an immense impact.

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#102
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to actually increase the number of politicians so that each district is small enough that you don't need money to get elected (you need districts of about 25,000 voters). The crazy thing is it doesn't even cost anymore money because as you increase the politicians you take away their staff. If you want to know more about this idea see [1]. 1. http://www.thirty-thousand.org

Ireland works this way; there are about 25k voters per representative. What happens is clientilism: representatives become very concerned with local issues and neglect national issues. Corruption of a different, more local kind, is encouraged.

Irish political corruption is a different kind of corruption. I don't think it is due to the size of the electorate, but more a reflection of history. Whatever the cause it is not due to the need for the representatives to raise truckloads of cash to buy advertising to get elected.

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#103
> As one judge wrote, a lobbyist is “induced to use his influence for the money he is to obtain; when, as a patriot and a citizen, he should only act for the good of his country.”

I wish that was still true.

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never lose by getting more votes - the nice thing about instant run offs is it simple (just rank) and it is close to the ideal outcome. It is not perfect, but it is not too bad. In regards stability it is better than proportional voting which tends to splinter the electorate. With instant run offs the candidate that is close to the consensus tends to win.

I'm drawing my conclusions from the visualizations here: http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/ (search for "nonmonotonicity"). Maybe I should have said public opinion. Shifting public opinion closer to your position can make you lose in IRV; I'm not sure if there's an actual vote count increase as well. From those visualizations and my reading elsewhere it looks like approval voting is the closest to a Voronoi-style partitioni…

There is no perfect electrol system, just systems of more or less degrees of badness. Any system chosen is always a balance between simplicity and correctness.

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#105
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea. One thing though, this won't work unless people vote. A major reason the system doesn't work well today is because only the most extreme voters turn out for primaries. Even if you reduce gerrymandering, it's hard to eliminate entirely. On the other hand, in smaller districts the electorate will be more likely to share opinions and interests so maybe that counteracts the problem?

How about compulsory voting? We do it in Australia

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I wonder how much effect it has on turnout. I one looks at the "VAP" ("The voter turnout as defined as the percentage of the voting age population that actually voted") , it seems Australia is a somewhat higher than the UK, and around the level of eg. Sweden (neither of which have mandatory voting).

Mexico doesn't do too well, but apparently mandatory voting isn't enforced.

http://www.idea.int/vt/countryview.cfm?id=15

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not do what is done in the UK and put spending limits in place?

Because ultimately a spending limit boils down to "you're not allowed to air this film" because you already spent too much. In fact, that's exactly what the Citizens United case was. We have a Bill of Rights which guarantees that Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, the right of the people to peaceably assemble, or the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

have public tv "air this film"? of course, you need strong democratic institutions like said public tv.

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never lose by getting more votes - the nice thing about instant run offs is it simple (just rank) and it is close to the ideal outcome. It is not perfect, but it is not too bad. In regards stability it is better than proportional voting which tends to splinter the electorate. With instant run offs the candidate that is close to the consensus tends to win.

>You never lose by getting more votes Yes you can. Basically the scenario is that by gaining votes from other parties, you can change who is eliminated in the first round, which changes distribution of second round votes. You can argue about how likely this is to happen, but on some level it doesn't matter. If people can't feel absolutely confident that voting for who they actually want won't reduce their vote's impa…

That is not how the system works for in example Australia. What happens is the votes for the lowest ranked candidate are given to all the second choice candidates and the process repeated until you get a candidate with 50% of the vote. There is no way that placing your preferred candidate first can ever result in your vote not being given in the order you choose. If you prefer candidate X above candidate y then candidate y will never get your vote unless X is eliminated.

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#108
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about compulsory voting? We do it in Australia

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I wonder how much effect it has on turnout. I one looks at the "VAP" ("The voter turnout as defined as the percentage of the voting age population that actually voted") , it seems Australia is a somewhat higher than the UK, and around the level of eg. Sweden (neither of which have mandatory voting). Mexico doesn't do too well, but apparently mandatory voting isn't enforced. http:/…

The trouble with the Australian 'VAP' number is Australia has a very large percentage on non-citizens. It seems from the data that they have divided the votes by the total population rather than the number of Australian citizens.

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#109
post #99
post #15

Perhaps the least understood view of lobbying that really informs how perverse the system has become is that as a general rule people believe the lobbyists are calling the congresspeople to offer them money. In reality, it's the congresspeople, desperate for campaign cash, that are calling the lobbyists for money. http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/01/27/145923803/the-f... The cost of congressional elections has…

And they all hate it if this video is any proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylomy1Aw9Hk Why do countries like Germany make do without these huge fundraising campaigns, while a having a more balanced parliament, and the US is just Rep or Dem (binary) plus a huge show on a tour bus across the country, instead of doing real politics? I mean, what's the cultural difference in the US population that facilitates the c…

I can't speak much for other countries, but for the Germany I suspect that a big part of the difference ultimately derives from a different voting and representation system that is much less focused on individual politicians, and therefore has a much lower tendency to devolve into a popularity contest. (It's still a popularity contest, but much less so.)

The unit that really matters in Germany is the party, and the most important vote in all elections at the state and federal levels is a party vote rather than a vote for an individual. Something like a Sanders candidacy would be completely unthinkable in Germany simply because of how the elections work.

(There is a secondary vote in elections in which you vote for an individual, but that can only marginally affect the final composition of parliament in terms of number of seats per party. The details are complicated, and for the purpose of this discussion it's best to pretend that this secondary vote doesn't exist.)

At its most extreme, neither the chancellor nor the state prime ministers are elected by direct vote.

Then there's an admittedly somewhat random element of political culture in that there are no open primaries. The selection of candidates within each party is done by vote among delegates internal to the parties, and is almost completely devoid of public spectacle. (The news media typically reports once on these internal elections on the day that they happen, and that's it.)

To top it all off, parties are subsidized by the state. Once a party wins a number of votes in an election - the threshold is fairly low, and lower than the number of votes required to enter parliament - they receive money proportional to their electoral success. This reduces the need to create a huge fundraising apparatus in the first place.

I'd say Lessig is right in that campaign financing reform is probably the best path forward for the US, since changing the other aspects I mentioned would require much deeper constitutional changes.

Re: When Lobbying was Illegal

#110
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to actually increase the number of politicians so that each district is small enough that you don't need money to get elected (you need districts of about 25,000 voters). The crazy thing is it doesn't even cost anymore money because as you increase the politicians you take away their staff. If you want to know more about this idea see [1]. 1. http://www.thirty-thousand.org

I like the idea. One thing though, this won't work unless people vote. A major reason the system doesn't work well today is because only the most extreme voters turn out for primaries. Even if you reduce gerrymandering, it's hard to eliminate entirely. On the other hand, in smaller districts the electorate will be more likely to share opinions and interests so maybe that counteracts the problem?

We should remove the importance of the primaries.

Anyone that wants to be on a ballot for a particular position should have to do the same thing as anyone else (probably collecting a modest number of signatures on a petition, maybe with some rules to limit the number of candidates).

I guess parties might be allowed to place an endorsement on a ballot, but if not they could still release a list of endorsements.

In that arrangement, contesting the national delegate convention to get the endorsement of the party might still happen, but it would not be so inordinately important.

A party organization would still be hugely useful in getting wide ballot presence, but an incumbent organization would not have the huge advantages that they enjoy today.

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