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Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

nytimes.com

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Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#61

Post by jwr »

jobigoud wrote: post #37

Regarding audio they say: > Doubling the speed, in our experience, leaves individual words perfectly identifiable — but makes it just about impossible to follow the meaning. Wow, sorry but this is very misinformed. A lot of people me included can listen to audio at 2x. I constantly listen to podcasts (so not a slow narration to begin with) at 2x in English which is not even my native language and I understand everyth…

Seconded. After I saw and heard how blind people use screen readers (with experience), I started accelerating audio. You can train your brain to become better at understanding — I started at 1.25x and slowly worked my way up. I am now at 1.75x - 2x (plus Overcast's silence removal) and I have no problems, even though English isn't my native language.

Two requirements: headphones (you need much more processing power to deal with crappy speakers and poor audio in general) and lack of significant distractions (you can't afford to think about something else). Also, some apps have crappy audio acceleration algorithms. Overcast does it so well that I use it also for listening to audiobooks.

I also think the article is misinformed. You can speed read by regularly training your brain. Just don't expect miracles and don't believe the "experts" who try to sell you miracles.

Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#62

Post by alfiedotwtf »

karmacondon wrote: post #5
visarga wrote: post #2

I run text through text-to-speech while reading visually to double my attention.

This is either insane, or pure genius. Has anyone else tried this?

Mind blown on this one too. It makes sense too - the aural bits of the brain and the reading bit of the brain don't interfere modally, so can act in parallel.

Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#63

Post by jobigoud »

jwr wrote: post #61
jobigoud wrote: post #37

Regarding audio they say: > Doubling the speed, in our experience, leaves individual words perfectly identifiable — but makes it just about impossible to follow the meaning. Wow, sorry but this is very misinformed. A lot of people me included can listen to audio at 2x. I constantly listen to podcasts (so not a slow narration to begin with) at 2x in English which is not even my native language and I understand everyth…

Seconded. After I saw and heard how blind people use screen readers (with experience), I started accelerating audio. You can train your brain to become better at understanding — I started at 1.25x and slowly worked my way up. I am now at 1.75x - 2x (plus Overcast's silence removal) and I have no problems, even though English isn't my native language. Two requirements: headphones (you need much more processing power t…

Yes the speech rate algorithm is important. The application I use uses the Sonic algorithm by Bill Cox, which is actually optimized for rates over 2x.

https://github.com/waywardgeek/sonic

I think speed rate should be a standard control on every multimedia player, just like volume.

Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#64

Post by mattmanser »

SeanDav wrote: post #42
zipwitch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I speed read pulp novels, and have for decades. From Doc Savage to Honor Harrington's recent outings, sometimes you just want the the combination of that literary equivalent of zoning out in front of the TV, combined with finding out what happens next. You're right that speed reading very well done stuff is a waste of time, but for the written equivalent of fast food, it seems to work fine. And if something does turn…

What is the point of speed reading a novel? If you can't be bothered to read what the author wrote, word for word (or nearly so) then you might as well go online and read a summary of the novel - job done. When an author writes a book, they consider every word they put in. Every word has meaning and a reason for being there. I am sure you could take almost any novel ever written and reduce it down to a 10th of it's o…

I recently read Robin Hobb's liveship trilogy. I was often skipping/speed reading pages at a time to keep the story going at a pace that I enjoyed.

I enjoyed the story without having to 'endure', from my point of view, the boring exposition and over detailing and over explaining of plot points. The dialogue was good, the story interesting, but there were big chunks of text talking about character motivations or other inner monologue and scene painting that were very unnecessary and dull. Entirely skippable. From my point of view.

I've even done the same with my favourite author, Iain M Banks, who got a little wordy in his later novels (for example Matter, which was a bit of a slog compared to the sublime Excession, which I soaked up every word).

That's the point. Not every word in a book is created equal. Authors aren't infallible and also I'm very quick at picking up the gist of a plot point or argument, it's my 'superpower', I get a bit bored at the comprehension rate of most people that authors aim for.

Also I prefer story to detail, I think of it as the difference between people who listen to music for lyrics vs listening to the tune. Personally I don't understand lyric listeners, it's called music, not poetry. Each to their own.

Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#65

Post by 551199 »

jasonkester wrote: post #9

I don't get why anybody would want to speed read a novel. (Outside of a High School literature class where you're being forced to read Ethan Frome and you just want to get back to playing Minecraft, of course). When I'm reading Hemingway, I'll go back and read individual paragraphs three times to squeeze the last drop of juice out of them. There are only so many Hemingway paragraphs in existence, so wasting one feels…

Everyone has their own preferences. Loads of books have some much fluff it's almost a crime against the reader. Personally, I speed read everything.

Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#66

Post by ash »

jwr wrote: post #61
jobigoud wrote: post #37

Regarding audio they say: > Doubling the speed, in our experience, leaves individual words perfectly identifiable — but makes it just about impossible to follow the meaning. Wow, sorry but this is very misinformed. A lot of people me included can listen to audio at 2x. I constantly listen to podcasts (so not a slow narration to begin with) at 2x in English which is not even my native language and I understand everyth…

Seconded. After I saw and heard how blind people use screen readers (with experience), I started accelerating audio. You can train your brain to become better at understanding — I started at 1.25x and slowly worked my way up. I am now at 1.75x - 2x (plus Overcast's silence removal) and I have no problems, even though English isn't my native language. Two requirements: headphones (you need much more processing power t…

I didn't know about Overcast. Volume normalization for listening in noisy places, smart speed with silence removal - I want those features!

Unfortunately Overcast is iOS only. Could anyone recommend an Android app similar to Overcast?

Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#67

Post by ash »

jobigoud wrote: post #63
jwr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded. After I saw and heard how blind people use screen readers (with experience), I started accelerating audio. You can train your brain to become better at understanding — I started at 1.25x and slowly worked my way up. I am now at 1.75x - 2x (plus Overcast's silence removal) and I have no problems, even though English isn't my native language. Two requirements: headphones (you need much more processing power t…

Yes the speech rate algorithm is important. The application I use uses the Sonic algorithm by Bill Cox, which is actually optimized for rates over 2x. https://github.com/waywardgeek/sonic I think speed rate should be a standard control on every multimedia player, just like volume.

> The application I use

What application do you use for listening?

Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#68

Post by Cyph0n »

ash wrote: post #66
jwr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded. After I saw and heard how blind people use screen readers (with experience), I started accelerating audio. You can train your brain to become better at understanding — I started at 1.25x and slowly worked my way up. I am now at 1.75x - 2x (plus Overcast's silence removal) and I have no problems, even though English isn't my native language. Two requirements: headphones (you need much more processing power t…

I didn't know about Overcast. Volume normalization for listening in noisy places, smart speed with silence removal - I want those features! Unfortunately Overcast is iOS only. Could anyone recommend an Android app similar to Overcast?

Pocket Casts [1] is the closest you can get on Android.

I use Podcast Addict [2], but it's a bit bloated to be frank.

[1]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=au.com.shiftyj...

[2]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bambuna.po...

Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#69

Post by jasode »

SeanDav wrote: post #42
zipwitch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I speed read pulp novels, and have for decades. From Doc Savage to Honor Harrington's recent outings, sometimes you just want the the combination of that literary equivalent of zoning out in front of the TV, combined with finding out what happens next. You're right that speed reading very well done stuff is a waste of time, but for the written equivalent of fast food, it seems to work fine. And if something does turn…

What is the point of speed reading a novel? If you can't be bothered to read what the author wrote, word for word (or nearly so) then you might as well go online and read a summary of the novel - job done. When an author writes a book, they consider every word they put in. Every word has meaning and a reason for being there. I am sure you could take almost any novel ever written and reduce it down to a 10th of it's o…

>When an author writes a book, they consider every word they put in. Every word has meaning and a reason for being there.

I think that's true of authors writing poetry and some authors of novels such as Gustave Flaubert[1]. He spent years refining the same sentences over and over for a single novel.

However, a lot of authors' output has a lot of fluff and fat and the final novel's sentences are hardly more polished than a 1st draft "brain dump". A lot of thrillers and mysteries sold at airport bookstores could be characterized like this. However, it's fine because the plot was interesting and readers will forgive a lot of flabby sentences they had to slog through. Some authors really "craft" their sentences. Some authors don't.[2]

I think readers, as they read certain authors... implicitly perceive if... Each. Word. Is. Really. Important. ... and therefore, slow down to digest it as necessary.

E.g., I would read Flaubert slowly but read Charles Dickens quickly. It gets more complicated with non-English writers like Flaubert because there would be 2 layers of word choices happening: it's Flaubert's French word choices and then the English translator's choices.

Dickens, on the other hand, wrote to a schedule of installments. Even though he didn't literally get "paid by the word count", he did have to fill out a set number of pages each month and the quality of writing is uneven.

[1]Flaubert believed in, and pursued, the principle of finding "le mot juste" ("the right word"), --from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Flaubert#Perfectionist...

[2]http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/50-shades-of-grey/feature/a...

Re: Sorry, You Can’t Speed Read

#70

Post by forgetsusername »

wink wrote: post #15

Also, the part about not listening to stuff at double speed. As if all recordings (and thus people speaking) were using the same speed. Sure, there are people who talk too fast anyway, but I've had an online course where I had to move to 1.5x speed to even be able to follow along and not drift off constantly...

>I had to move to 1.5x speed to even be able to follow along and not drift off constantly...

I'm an avid audio-book listener, and I use both 1.5-2.0x and 0.8-0.9x, depending on my mood. The slower speeds definitely allow you to "think" more about the content, rather than concentrating solely on the narrative.

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