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Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

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Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#161

Post by ErikAugust »

scott_s wrote: post #159
ErikAugust wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My intuition is that 'underutilized' is probably not the reality of things. One can take bad shots - and part of Steph's magic is knowing what is a good shot for him. And for him, an incredible shooter, this means plenty of shots from anywhere on the court.

The author of the 538 piece makes an interesting case that he may actually be underutilized. The gist is that his efficiency has not gone down as his number of shots has gone up, and that a "bad shot" for Curry is still better than a "good shot" for most other players.

It's tough, basketball is truly a team game and that brings with it complexity. Defensive matchups, especially.

I feel like he may be "underutilized" on a 73-win Warriors squad that includes Klay Thompson, etc.

But if you asked him to put up 40 shots a game playing on a team with one of the NBA's worst offenses - it would be a whole different story.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#163

Post by at-fates-hands »

waynecochran wrote: post #151
chishaku wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Stockton was a point guard so that's not an apt comparison. Kobe averaged 6.0 assists per game the year after Shaq left, the highest season average of his career.

You're right -- although of all the great players, Kobe seemed the worst at making the players around him better. Of course, I have not watched the NBA lately, so don't take me too seriously.

While this is true, there is a lot a negativity around the fact that Kobe was the second coming of Michael Jordan in nearly every sense.

What I mean by that is he copied his style, his shot, his drive to perform, but you're spot on in pointing out it really was all about him. Jordan took pay cuts to get better guys around him, he relentlessly made guys play up to his standards.

Kobe took huge contracts, drove out other players who made the team better and refused to let others share his spotlight. What I remember most is in several games after Shaq left, watching come down the court and repeatedly looking guys off who were wide open, then either take a wild three point shot, or drive the lane and lose the ball.

Here is a video comparison of Jordan plays vs. Kobe plays: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v27Hk5OIe-k

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#164

Post by aidenn0 »

distances wrote: post #68
Godel_unicode wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious culture-calibration question(assuming you're not trolling): where are you from? At least in America, "Kobe Bryant is a famous basketball player" is one of those facts that everyone (for relatively large values of everyone) knows.

Europe -- mostly Germany and Finland. The only basketball players I know are Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.

Out of curiousity, how old are you? Those were probably the biggest names in basketball in the 80s. It's also possible that they are known in Europe due to being co-captains of the first US Olypmic basketball team to allow professional players (Though they were past their prime at that point, and the remaining players were near the top of their NBA careers).

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#165

Post by p0ckets »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #132
avn2109 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only practice, but also training. Every shooting coach in the league will tell you that the deep two is the worst shot in basketball. Kobe had it drilled into his head since he was seven years old that you never shoot a deep two .

I wonder if we'll ever see a maverick player perform well because he's taking these shots, trains for them, specialises in them, positions for them, in a world where defenders train supposing you'll position differently, and reposition rather than take the shot if you happen to receive a ball in a deep two position.

If you could shoot 100% deep twos, you'd only need to make 67% of 3-pointers to make it better to shoot 3's. The typical FG% is about 60% for layups, and 40% for 3's. You'd have to get better at these deep 2's than layups to make this worthwhile!

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#166

Post by cortesoft »

waynecochran wrote: post #151
chishaku wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Stockton was a point guard so that's not an apt comparison. Kobe averaged 6.0 assists per game the year after Shaq left, the highest season average of his career.

You're right -- although of all the great players, Kobe seemed the worst at making the players around him better. Of course, I have not watched the NBA lately, so don't take me too seriously.

I don't think you can be the worst at making players around you better and win 5 championships.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#167

Post by hysan »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #132
avn2109 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only practice, but also training. Every shooting coach in the league will tell you that the deep two is the worst shot in basketball. Kobe had it drilled into his head since he was seven years old that you never shoot a deep two .

I wonder if we'll ever see a maverick player perform well because he's taking these shots, trains for them, specialises in them, positions for them, in a world where defenders train supposing you'll position differently, and reposition rather than take the shot if you happen to receive a ball in a deep two position.

You won't because you're making it even easier on the defense. Trying to optimize for that spot would screw up the positioning for everyone else on your team. The defending team would have it easy because you've essentially killed all chance for high post plays, PnRs, and a good number of cut/backdoor type plays. It would take far more time than I have to breakdown the why, but the main factors off the top of my head are:

1. Remember the NBA has legal zone defense.

2. Additionally, help defense is a lot easier in today's NBA. Forced isolations would be very difficult and even if you do it, there is less ground b/w help defense and the attacker.

3. You have many more quick and/or lengthy 3&D type wings in the NBA today. Help and close-outs are easier.

4. Long shots mean long rebounds. Putting wings one step in means the offensive team would lose out on one of the main disadvantages of zones - inability to secure defensive rebounds.

5. That one player will also be a liability on transition D. He will always be one step behind in case the opposing team forces a TO and runs.

That's just scratching the surface, but there is a reason it's called no-man's land for shooters.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#168

Post by __derek__ »

stinkytaco wrote: post #153
duaneb wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know basketball. Are those players known for assists?

Those players, with the exception of Michael Jordan who is an exception to almost all NBA players ever, are forwards or shooting guards. Their job is not to assist, it is to shoot. That said, basketball is more mobile now than it every was and passing plays such as the pick and roll are an essential part of any team's arsenal. A good player will assist his teammates as well as shoot. On the other hand, it's really no…

> Those players, with the exception of Michael Jordan who is an exception to almost all NBA players ever, are forwards or shooting guards.

I don't understand that sentence. Jordan was a 2 who moved to the 3 later in his career.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#170

Post by aljones »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #163
waynecochran wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right -- although of all the great players, Kobe seemed the worst at making the players around him better. Of course, I have not watched the NBA lately, so don't take me too seriously.

While this is true, there is a lot a negativity around the fact that Kobe was the second coming of Michael Jordan in nearly every sense. What I mean by that is he copied his style, his shot, his drive to perform, but you're spot on in pointing out it really was all about him. Jordan took pay cuts to get better guys around him, he relentlessly made guys play up to his standards. Kobe took huge contracts, drove out oth…

I've never seen Jordan accused of taking a pay cut before. The lockout was because of his huge salary. I don't even think there was a salary cap then...
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