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Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

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Re: Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

#51

Post by FnuGk »

wheat7420 wrote: post #29
kchoudhu wrote: post #21

Shocker: POV characters are probably main characters.

Readers of the books know that is definitely not the case. For instance Areo Hotah is a repeated point of view character who is merely there to provide prospective on the court of Dorne as a silent body guard. Fans of the series call him "the camera who rides." On the other hand GRRM has said characters like Littlefinger and Varys will never have chapters because their plans are too revealing of the end of the book.…

His chapters is called "The captain of guards" and not "Areo" as is the way chapters of the main POV characters is named.

Re: Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

#53

Post by qrendel »

FnuGk wrote: post #50
qrendel wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is one way to look at it, at least for the books. For the TV show, over all the seasons it seems like three main characters have emerged (based on longevity, screentime, and plot importance): Daenerys, Tyrion, and Jon Snow. You could perhaps argue Cersei as well - iirc she has more POV chapters and page-time in the books than any other character. An alternative view is that the main character(s) change f…

Robb was never a POV character

Didn't actually say that he was, though it may be the TV show has changed my memory of his place in the second and third books. After a few years it gets hard to keep track of exactly what happened in a ~5000 page series.

Re: Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

#54

Post by SolarNet »

talmand wrote: post #45
repsilat wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Tyrion is] not so significant He was essentially responsible for the successful defense of King's Landing at the Battle of the Blackwater. If he hadn't been there, Stannis would be on the Iron Throne -- I'd call that high-impact. I agree that Littlefinger's impact is under-represented by this measure, though. And obviously Arya has had no impact on anything important at all ti date...

Defense of King's Landing? You mean the event that everyone immediately dismissed and took credit away from him? How many characters even recall it that way? It was significant at that moment, but dwindled away to next to nothing almost immediately. Other than that one thing, Tyrion has mostly gone along for the ride, which fits his character. As for Stannis being on the Iron Throne, it would makes some things differ…

But remember what they are saying they are trying to find here is the main character, not the main character in the universe. You actually argue against your own point. You say this is a popularity contest, and then say no one in universe would remember it that way. But if his impact, and hence relationship to the actual story, is what this measures.

Re: Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

#55

Post by soylentcola »

neipfjin239 wrote: post #44
thom wrote: post #24

The dragon has three heads, so we're told. Tyrion, Jon, Daenerys?

This is a popular fan theory (Jon's parentage is very ambiguous, and it can be argued that Tyrion's parentage is not completely clear, leading to speculation that they both have Targaryen blood).

Yep. That's the general theory so popular and makes enough sense that in a way, I'll be both pleased (for picking up on it) and disappointed (for lack of surprise) if it really turns out that way.

At the same time, it would be sort of lame if GRRM decided "well, everyone figured out R+L=J and the three headed dragon and all so I guess I better change some things around".

Then I just get a little bit bummed out (and guilty for feeling entitled) that the next book probably won't be out for a while still.

Re: Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

#56

Post by saeranv »

repsilat wrote: post #37
talmand wrote: post #25

This is only a popularity contest among the known characters and their known interactions. For instance, Littlefinger started out seemingly as a small player but then we learn later he was actually a rather significant player in almost all aspects of what has been happening so far. Granted his obvious interactions are with rather important people but by appearances the number of interactions seem low while actually b…

> [Tyrion is] not so significant He was essentially responsible for the successful defense of King's Landing at the Battle of the Blackwater. If he hadn't been there, Stannis would be on the Iron Throne -- I'd call that high-impact. I agree that Littlefinger's impact is under-represented by this measure, though. And obviously Arya has had no impact on anything important at all ti date...

One of my favorite, subtle parts of the series is that the prisoner escape Arya engineered for Robett Glover and his men, was actually already planned. Glover had struck a deal with Vargo Hoat to release them once they were in prison to take over Harrenhal. Which means, once again Arya wasted her wish.

Further analysis here: https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/chapte...

Re: Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

#57

Post by saeranv »

skywhopper wrote: post #33

The graph is interesting. But maybe Game of Thrones doesn't have a "main" character. One of the things fans love about the books is that they subvert genre expectations at every turn. Given how things are going, in fact, I won't be surprised if the next literary convention GRRM eschews is "conclusion".

Ah interesting. Personally I don't think so. He is not a postmodern author in that sense. Subversion of tropes in the fantasy genre is one thing, getting rid of literary/narrative conventions is quite another leap.

Re: Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

#58

Post by talmand »

SolarNet wrote: post #54
talmand wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defense of King's Landing? You mean the event that everyone immediately dismissed and took credit away from him? How many characters even recall it that way? It was significant at that moment, but dwindled away to next to nothing almost immediately. Other than that one thing, Tyrion has mostly gone along for the ride, which fits his character. As for Stannis being on the Iron Throne, it would makes some things differ…

But remember what they are saying they are trying to find here is the main character, not the main character in the universe. You actually argue against your own point. You say this is a popularity contest, and then say no one in universe would remember it that way. But if his impact, and hence relationship to the actual story, is what this measures.

But I am talking about the story, not the universe. There is no main character to a universe.

But I'm not understanding how I'm arguing against my own point, could you elaborate?

I'm saying that the chart is an indication of a popularity contest as defined by the rules of the chart. But the rules of the chart does not necessarily follow the rules defined by the story.

As for the events that I'm saying the characters don't recall the same as it happened, that's my point that the character did not have that much impact to the overall story because their involvement is forgotten or has been deemed unimportant by the other characters. Therefore, Tyrion's impact has been negligible to the story overall. For the most part, almost all the characters have had very little impact to the story overall; which I find really interesting. They have significant moments that's a huge impact to the characters individually, but may not have much significance to the story as a whole.

So far I would say that Littlefinger is the closest to a main character we have with this type of thing in mind. Simply because he has influenced almost everything that has happened so far in some way.

Almost all the deaths in the story have had an effect on readers simply because almost all the characters have the same weight (or whatever term) as any other despite their position in the perceived power structure. The story taught us very early that no one is safe, therefore there is no easy choice to be made as to who the hero or villain of the story is. Because so far neither really exists. This is one of the many reasons I find this story so interesting, it doesn't read as your typical hero-vs-villain fantasy story where you can guess the outcome before the end of the second act.

Re: Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

#59

Post by talmand »

saeranv wrote: post #56
repsilat wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Tyrion is] not so significant He was essentially responsible for the successful defense of King's Landing at the Battle of the Blackwater. If he hadn't been there, Stannis would be on the Iron Throne -- I'd call that high-impact. I agree that Littlefinger's impact is under-represented by this measure, though. And obviously Arya has had no impact on anything important at all ti date...

One of my favorite, subtle parts of the series is that the prisoner escape Arya engineered for Robett Glover and his men, was actually already planned. Glover had struck a deal with Vargo Hoat to release them once they were in prison to take over Harrenhal. Which means, once again Arya wasted her wish. Further analysis here: https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/chapte...

Yes, I absolutely love Arya's character because of things like that. She is a major factor of teaching the reader how the world works because we learn through her realizations of her failures and disappointments just as she does.

Re: Mathematicians mapped “Game of Thrones” relationship to find the main character

#60

Post by talmand »

xiaq wrote: post #43
skywhopper wrote: post #33

The graph is interesting. But maybe Game of Thrones doesn't have a "main" character. One of the things fans love about the books is that they subvert genre expectations at every turn. Given how things are going, in fact, I won't be surprised if the next literary convention GRRM eschews is "conclusion".

Exactly. Instead of a lot of plotting and planning, people just kill and die. It's very, very refreshing.

But there's lots of plotting and planning for people to just kill and die as well.
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