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Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

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Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#161

Post by alex_c »

winter_blue wrote: post #158

I'm really impressed at how quickly the US government responds to the demands of its citizens. (in this instance, a demand for a startup visa.) US is an example of true democracy. In countries like India, it can take several years to get simple demands of the people into law. Most politicians there are incredibly self-interested and care little about the people. (I'm not saying US politicians are not self-interested,…

I'm very happy about this proposal, and I certainly hope it passes, but the cynical part of me has to note a few things:

1) This hasn't passed yet. Let's see what happens, the US government is a bit deadlocked right now.

2) I'm not convinced this happens very often. Maybe I'm wrong.

3) I can't help but notice that the demand comes from VCs and investors - people who control large sums of money - rather than "citizens" or "people" in the broader sense.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#163

Post by tptacek »

neilc wrote: post #160
tptacek wrote: post #2

This is a bill that proposes to give US venture capitalists the overt ability to terminate the residency status of founders and their families. Not only do you have to get sponsored by an effectively arbitrary class of financiers (it is possible that Warren Buffet wouldn't qualify under these terms, depending on whether he has personally made 2 equity investments last year), but even if your company creates 10 US job…

This is a bill that proposes to give US venture capitalists the overt ability to terminate the residency status of founders and their families. US employers already have this power over employees that hold visas. Why do you trust employers but not VCs? (Or put another one, there is potential for abuse in either arrangement, but I'm not convinced that VCs are fundamentally worse than employers.)

US employers shouldn't have that power. That power distorts the market. It's unfair for aspiring residents, and it's bad for taxpaying US citizens.

Adding yet another class of people with unfair power over immigrants, and yet another distortion to the market, seems like a very poor response to that problem.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#164

Post by briansmith »

davemc500hats wrote: post #98
briansmith wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is anything I said false? Because I used the word "just"? Take out the word "just" and everything we both said is true: there are VC's that aren't rich, and rich people will be able to abuse this to get their friends green cards, while those without connections have to wait and work for 7-9 years to get their green cards. Look at http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_4659.htm... . It says that the U…

obviously the issue of how fast the INS is able to process legitimate green card applications is an issue, however i don't feel that it's a legitimate reason to exclude this new proposed legislation. we can attack the problem by focusing on improving INS processing times, rather than excluding other valid applicants (of any type). we are certainly not suggesting StartupVisa green card applicants "move to the front of…

My friend's applied for her green card 1.5 years ago. The best estimate for her getting the green card is 2017--about 8.5 years from the start of processing. That is the typical EB-3 wait time.

Are you saying you'd have EB-6 applications also take 8.5 years?

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#165

Post by wheels »

eagleal wrote: post #155
henrikschroder wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are not a EU citizen you need a residence permit and a work permit. I don't know how different the rules are between the EU countries, but it's roughly the same everwhere. A work permit is typically tied to an employer, and a residence permit is typically tied to a work permit. Here's the different kinds for Sweden: http://www.migrationsverket.se/info/1074_en.html

Once you have a Visa/Residence permit (work) in one country you can freely move between all the EU countries. (I live in Italy with residence permit, so I know)

Usually you need a permanent residence permit (Greencard equivalent), and then it has to be a fairly recent one as the laws were only harmonized in the last 5 years. And even then, the permit for most of the EU isn't valid for the UK or Ireland.

In Germany the first permit that you get (an H1B equivalent) is tied to one job, and hence, tied to the place where you have that job. After 5 years of working full-time (and a long string of other checklist items), you're eligible to begin the application process for permanent residence (which I now have).

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#166

Post by briansmith »

dgallagher wrote: post #154
briansmith wrote: post #26

This would just allow the rich and connected to choose thousands of people to budge to the front of a 3-5 year long line that other green gard applicants (EB-3) are waiting in. If there are resources available to process more EB-5's and EB-6's, then put them to use accelerating the process for the people that have already waited years for their applications to be approved. Accelerate that process and you'll accelerat…

According to the letter submitted by Senators Kerry and Lugar, it would only affect resources for EB-5 visas (no mention of EB-3 visas): To make visas available, we would amend immigration law to create a new EB-6 category for immigrant entrepreneurs. We would draw from existing visas under the EB-5 category. The EB-5 permits foreign nationals who invest at least $1 million in the U.S., and thereby create 10 jobs, to…

That's not how it works. Whatever EB-5's don't get used eventually trickle down to EB-1, EB-2, and EB-3. They don't just go unused. If EB-6's start using them up, then there will be fewer EB-3's available every year.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#167

Post by neilc »

tptacek wrote: post #163
neilc wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bill that proposes to give US venture capitalists the overt ability to terminate the residency status of founders and their families. US employers already have this power over employees that hold visas. Why do you trust employers but not VCs? (Or put another one, there is potential for abuse in either arrangement, but I'm not convinced that VCs are fundamentally worse than employers.)

US employers shouldn't have that power. That power distorts the market. It's unfair for aspiring residents, and it's bad for taxpaying US citizens. Adding yet another class of people with unfair power over immigrants, and yet another distortion to the market, seems like a very poor response to that problem.

US employers shouldn't have that power.

Perhaps not -- but if we're debating a realistic change to the visa system, an argument that begins with rejecting the basic principle under which most visas operate seems pretty impractical.

Adding yet another class of people with unfair power over immigrants, and yet another distortion to the market, seems like a very poor response to that problem.

According to what standard would this give VCs "unfair" power over immigrants?

As for "distorting the market", any substantial change to the visa system would distort the market in one way or another. The practical question is whether the startup visa improves the situation, not whether it is the globally optimal immigration policy.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#168

Post by briansmith »

matrix wrote: post #96
briansmith wrote: post #26

This would just allow the rich and connected to choose thousands of people to budge to the front of a 3-5 year long line that other green gard applicants (EB-3) are waiting in. If there are resources available to process more EB-5's and EB-6's, then put them to use accelerating the process for the people that have already waited years for their applications to be approved. Accelerate that process and you'll accelerat…

"The current line is 7-9 years long." Only if you are on a low-priority employment-based visa and are Indian or Chinese born (i.e. waiting for priority date to become current). The process is still much too long though, even in other cases. Not that I want to defend the US immigration and employment visa processes. Far from it. The system as it stands is completely and utterly broken. It turns away many of the very p…

I think EB-3 is "normal" priority. The Indian/Chinese EB-3 backlog is 9 years. The current "rest of the world" EB-3 backlog is a little over 7 years. See http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_4659.htm....

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#169

Post by anamax »

ajju wrote: post #76
anamax wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are no laws in America protecting the rights of these entrepreneurs who are not citizens. They are here to build a business, hopefully, but if they miss the marks, they lose everything! Their home, their business, their employees, and potentially the rights to any revenues, IP, or equity in the company they founded. Where are you getting this from? Non-residents can own things that happen to be in the US. The…

This is true, but you are forfeiting any active management position, authority and likely control, which is basically the same as being fired as CEO. Not something you want to risk.

> This is true, but you are forfeiting any active management position, authority and likely control, which is basically the same as being fired as CEO.

Again - no, being deported doesn't cause any of those things. The owners of the biz are the ones who make that decison.

Since we're assuming that you're being deported because you're not satisfying the conditions of the startup visa, what are the odds that said owners would have kept you on anyway?

Advocates of the startup visa said that they wanted to bring folks into the company to create biz. Fair enough, but what should we conclude when they complain about deporting folks who don't do what they wanted?

And, what should we conclude when they make up stories about the consequences of deportation?

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#170

Post by holygoat »

ericb wrote: post #109
potatolicious wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a Canadian who immigrated from Asia, and know a large number of rich Asians who have also followed the same path, the situation is really not as simple as you put it. The rich are in no way obligated to share their wealth with you - as the Canadian government has unfortunately learned. Our immigration programs have three paths: skilled labour, investment, and entrepreneurial. Skilled labour is simply lett…

Are they bringing the money in suitcases for the purpose of spending it? Wouldn't that be taxed in the recipient of the spending's income?

And in sales taxes.
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