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Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

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Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#91

Post by phamilton »

balls187 wrote: post #87
phamilton wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apples to apples shot percentage is a great stat. My biggest complaint with Kobe is that he scored a lot of points because he took a lot of shots. Last night for example, he took ~60% of shots from the field for his team which accounted for ~55% (ignoring FTs). In other words, the expected return on his shot was lower than the rest of his team. Now, FTs change that story a bit, but even in the best case scenario he b…

> My biggest complaint with Kobe is that he scored a lot of points because he took a lot of shots. Isn't that the point of basketball?

The point is to make shots, not just take them.

EDIT: There's roughly a finite number of shots a team can take in a game. If one player takes most of the shots, then sure they will score a lot of points. But are they maximizing team points? If other members of the team have a higher shooting percentage then taking less shots and passing the ball around will be advantageous.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#92

Post by balls187 »

phamilton wrote: post #91
balls187 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My biggest complaint with Kobe is that he scored a lot of points because he took a lot of shots. Isn't that the point of basketball?

The point is to make shots, not just take them. EDIT: There's roughly a finite number of shots a team can take in a game. If one player takes most of the shots, then sure they will score a lot of points. But are they maximizing team points? If other members of the team have a higher shooting percentage then taking less shots and passing the ball around will be advantageous.

The point is to out score your opponent.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#93

Post by ben_jones »

Say what you will about the NBA (like the fact that they're about to vote to have corporate logos on jerseys in the near future), but what they're doing with data science, and especially the open sourcing of it, is a gold standard not just for sports but for many other industries.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#94

Post by strictnein »

gokhan wrote: post #18
ssharp wrote: post #14

It will be interesting to compare this shot chart, of the greatest scorer of his generation, to what Steph Curry's, who may be the greatest scorer of his generation, career shot chart ends up being. Where Curry's game is extremely efficient, with most points coming from behind the line or near the basket, Kobe was shooting all over the place. Kobe's game was also much more reliant on getting to the foul line. They we…

Their height and weight differences justify the different style, though. Curry is 1.91 / 86kg, hard to penetrate inside with force since he lacks the mass. Jordan and Kobe are both 1.98, you can compare them better.

Just for my fellow Americans:

1.91m = ~6 ft 3in

86kg = 189.6lbs

1.98m = ~6 ft 6in

edit: oops, 6ft 6in, not 6ft 8in

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#95

Post by hinkley »

balls187 wrote: post #87
phamilton wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apples to apples shot percentage is a great stat. My biggest complaint with Kobe is that he scored a lot of points because he took a lot of shots. Last night for example, he took ~60% of shots from the field for his team which accounted for ~55% (ignoring FTs). In other words, the expected return on his shot was lower than the rest of his team. Now, FTs change that story a bit, but even in the best case scenario he b…

> My biggest complaint with Kobe is that he scored a lot of points because he took a lot of shots. Isn't that the point of basketball?

The point of basketball is to sell tickets and paraphernalia, and he's got that part covered. I'm sure the owners are perfectly happy.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#96

Post by ben_jones »

ssharp wrote: post #79
matwood wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curry is a great shooter that also benefits from the rule changes to give shooters more space outside the paint. I never liked the constant hand checking allowed, and am glad they stopped it. I wonder how Curry would fare in the 90s NBA given his smaller frame. I think he would still be a great shooter, but could he get his shot as easily? Debates like this are what makes sports fun.

It seems like a fairly common sentiment when comparing the '96 Bulls to '16 Warriors is that the Bulls would win under '96 rules and the Warriors would win under '16 rules. There were also players who shot the ball extremely well before the three-point line took effect. Steph is averaging around 30 points per game with 5 three's a game. Without the additional point, it drops him to 25 points per game. Still good but…

Removing the three point line would also detract from Durant, James (his shooting has been a big part of his game the second half of the season), and Westbrook. I think Curry would still be a major contender.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#97

Post by phamilton »

huac wrote: post #89
balls187 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My biggest complaint with Kobe is that he scored a lot of points because he took a lot of shots. Isn't that the point of basketball?

not all shots are created equal - the "long 2" has a lower expected value than taking a few steps back for a 3-pointer, or finishing at the rim for an easier 2 we can't really hold kobe's last game against him imo - he's definitely been a ballhog but if it's his last game he should have the opportunity to shoot until his arms fall off

I thought it was a wonderful and fitting final game. Kobe playing like he has his whole career. It was great.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#98

Post by phamilton »

balls187 wrote: post #92
phamilton wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to make shots, not just take them. EDIT: There's roughly a finite number of shots a team can take in a game. If one player takes most of the shots, then sure they will score a lot of points. But are they maximizing team points? If other members of the team have a higher shooting percentage then taking less shots and passing the ball around will be advantageous.

The point is to out score your opponent.

As a team. Not as an individual. Kobe taking 50 shots and going for 40+ is orthogonal to the team winning.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#99

Post by billhendricksjr »

exDM69 wrote: post #2

How curious that there's a band of no shots that's right on the three point line. But then there are plenty of shots a foot closer to the hoop. The explanation is probably psychological, you don't want to take shots that are as about as difficult as 3 point shots, but worth only two. But the situation isn't really any better if you take a single step forwards. Of course, the positioning of the defensive players matte…

A long two is the worst shot in basketball from an analytics perspective. I know that sounds incredibly obvious, but it's one biggest changes to game theory that the basketball analytics wave brought.

Re: Every shot Kobe Bryant ever took

#100

Post by vph »

burkaman wrote: post #71
josephscott wrote: post #63

Of the 30,699 shots, he missed 16,966 and made 13,731. At the smallest level of performance it is nice to see that you can fail more often than you succeed and still be very successful over all.

There's a famous Kobe quote on his philosophy on failing. During a conversation at some game: "Deron Williams went like 0-9. I was like, 'Can you believe Deron Williams went 0-9?' Kobe was like, 'I would go 0-30 before I would go 0-9. 0-9 means you beat yourself, you psyched yourself out of the game, because Deron Williams can get more shots in the game. The only reason is because you've just now lost confidence in y…

A similar quote by Michael Jordan: “I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.”
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