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What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

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Re: What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

#81

Post by jere »

tominous wrote: post #33
tgflynn wrote: post #16

I'm amazed by the improbability of this guy's life. He had an abusive father and a schizophrenic mother dropped out of school at 15 then worked as a sound engineer for a famous rock band, built a successful high-end auto repair business and then became a best selling author. I have to admit I was skeptical reading the article but his story seems to check out ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Elder_Robison ). I won…

Eric Raymond had an interesting take on the link between autism and exceptional achievement (if you can get past his ego). http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7060 In short, the time and energy normally spent on social interaction instead is spent on other aspects of life.

>if you can get past his ego

Sorry, I can't.

>I was thought to be a child prodigy with exceptional mathematical gifts; in 1975 I was the first high-school student in the institution’s memory to present original research at the annual meeting of the American Mathematical Society. Unusually large working memory, check. I’m pretty sure the authors would consider me a genius, unless they know a lot of people who have been all of: A-list software architects, New York Times bestselling authors also nominated for a Campbell Award, musicians good enough to do session work on two albums, world-championship-level players of strategy games, speakers who’ve drawn packed crowds on six continents, martial-arts instructors, sought-after advisors to investment bankers, and founders of successful reform movements that arguably changed history.

If that's not enough for you, there's other articles in which he fancies himself a skilled pick up artist.

Raymond reminds me of Aleksey Vayner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_Is_Nothing_(video_r...

A mix of middling competence, unremarkable anecdotes, half truths, and apparent lies. None of which is reason for such arrogance.

Anyway, I don't find his hypothesis very convincing. Not caring what others think of you gives you plenty of time to read novels, play video games, and watch television.

Re: What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

#82

Post by Lawtonfogle »

tehwalrus wrote: post #61

Some people have argued [1] that it was not his autism, but his alexithymia which was altered by the TMS. Alexithymia is an orthogonal condition: it can occur with or without autism. Believing that a "cure" for autism is required is also a rejection of neuro-atypicality as a valid state of being, which is a common form of subconscious Ablism (discrimination against disabled people). That is not to say that no autisti…

There is a really deep question of when does abnormal become a problem, a sickness, or a disability.

For example, homosexuality is rare and decreases the chance of having direct descendants. But would that qualify as an illness or a sickness? In some parts of the world being homosexual can result in a significantly reduced qualify of life, but is that a problem with the person or with society?

Now switch homosexuality for some far less socially acceptable (at least in Western cultures) attractions. How does things change?

Now, say we count out humans for a second (so messy legal/moral concepts like consent are less involved), and apply the thinking to different species of animals. When does abnormal behavior become illness?

Look at honey bees... most of the colony doesn't reproduce and takes roles that limit any ability to directly pass on their genes, but that is how the species works.

The difference between normal and abnormal, well and sick, mentally healthy and mentally ill are problems with not just autism, but with abnormal psychology in general.

Re: What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

#83

Post by tgflynn »

jere wrote: post #81
tominous wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eric Raymond had an interesting take on the link between autism and exceptional achievement (if you can get past his ego). http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7060 In short, the time and energy normally spent on social interaction instead is spent on other aspects of life.

>if you can get past his ego Sorry, I can't. >I was thought to be a child prodigy with exceptional mathematical gifts; in 1975 I was the first high-school student in the institution’s memory to present original research at the annual meeting of the American Mathematical Society. Unusually large working memory, check. I’m pretty sure the authors would consider me a genius, unless they know a lot of people who have bee…

Do you have evidence that the claims he made here are inaccurate ?

I don't necessarily think accurately presenting one's accomplishments for the purpose of explaining the life basis for one's views constitutes arrogance, and even if it does a little arrogance in extraordinary individuals seems like a very minor fault compared against the spectrum of human defects responsible for the state of the world today. That isn't to say that arrogance can't lead to dangerous thought leadership but I think if you take harmless displays such as this as a signal to reject a person's entire viewpoint you will miss out on some ideas that are worth considering. What if everyone had shunned Linus Torvalds because of some of his personality traits ?

Re: What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

#84

Post by motti »

My mother published a fairly seminal paper on the topic [1] 18 years ago which concludes that emotional awareness (specifically, the "Theory of Mind"[2]) can be learned by people with Autism.

At the time this was against prevailing wisdom but AFAIK is now considered accepted wisdom.

[1] https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?cluster=165456960940191... [2] https://www.autism.com/understanding_theoryofmind

Re: What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

#86

Post by vertex-four »

junko wrote: post #67
k__ wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I knew a few lightly autistic people who also aren't exceptionally good at anything. Some are better than average programmers or something. But their autism is a greater burden than their increased skills are a help in their life. It's not that they just sit at home all day, avoiding people and creating awesome stuff en masse. Most of the suffer from their inability to interact socially.

But that burden can be lightened. I wonder why local groups along the lines of 'Autistic Anonymous' don't exist, or even if they do, aren't widespread enough as there is a significant minority of the population who are autistic. I'm talking about those who are in the 'higher' spectrum of course, though by no means the group should turn into genius club or something. I agree, autistic people can also be average-skille…

Autistic-spectrum people tend to prefer finding and interacting with people over the Internet - personally, much of my support network is a couple hundred miles away from me, and I get to see some of them only a couple of times a year. It works out - I also get as much irl socialisation as I desire (I even organise an unrelated monthly social event).

Re: What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

#87

Post by phineastcat »

I'm on the spectrum and don't feel any emotional disconnect unless my blood sugar drops (usually from forgetting to eat or sleep.) When that happens, it's like part of my brain just... goes to sleep. I'm still awake, but I have a really hard time producing or sensing any emotions. My loved ones tell me 'it's like talking to a robot and not [PhineasTCat].'

The weirdest part is I can physically feel that part of my brain isn't awake; it's like a weight in my head, pressing on my eyes. When I was little I called it 'the brain fuzzies.'

Re: What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

#88

Post by fallingfrog »

notthemessiah wrote: post #13
smegel wrote: post #3

The biggest takeaway from this for me was...so what the hell is EM radiation from my mobile phone doing to my brain???

Cell phone radiation is typically in the GHz wave range, and rTMS, as well as most brain waves, typically between 1 and 30 Hz. They are completely different parts of the spectrum, well, so unless you are a pigeon, I don't think there's much effect.

I wonder what effect the 60 cycle radiation from the power mains has on people? Presumably not much, or there would be some evidence with such a large number of people being constantly exposed. And yet TMS at 30 hz apparently has a huge effect. I feel like I am missing some piece of the picture here. Perhaps it's the intensity that makes the difference.

Re: What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

#89

Post by Diederich »

motti wrote: post #84

My mother published a fairly seminal paper on the topic [1] 18 years ago which concludes that emotional awareness (specifically, the "Theory of Mind"[2]) can be learned by people with Autism. At the time this was against prevailing wisdom but AFAIK is now considered accepted wisdom. [1] https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?cluster=165456960940191... [2] https://www.autism.com/understanding_theoryofmind

It's unclear how far along I am on the spectrum, but emotional intelligence is something I acquired late and with much effort.

Re: What It’s Like to ‘Wake Up’ from Autism After Magnetic Stimulation

#90

Post by restalis »

Houshalter wrote: post #68
wbl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you'll never experience what it's like to infodump about a special interest to someone who shares it, or the joys of stimming. Oh, and if you're lucky like I am, a reading speed of 1,000-2,500 words per minute easy, and sometimes a lot more. Social situations can be navigated by conscious training, as can emotion recognition and acting sympathetically. My life isn't worse, just different. I meet friends online, i…

Magnetic stimulation isn't going to radically change your entire brain. As I understand it it just changed that one symptom of autism by stimulating a single brain area. As I understand it the treatment is temporary, so it's not like you have to stay that way if you don't like it. And if I could experiment with inducing autism in myself I totally would. I'm going to research this treatment more because it sounds tota…

"if I could experiment with inducing autism in myself I totally would"

You can. You distance yourself from people, suggesting yourself over and over that you don't really need much social interaction, communicate with people only outside perceptions and feelings and the entire world around you starts to change. Each time you'll catch yourself analyzing emotions you'll stop due to its error-prone nature and switch to analyzing facts and social mechanics. There are of course many other things but this should do for a start.

My belief is that emotions were a capability developed in social creatures to cope with social intricacies given the limited rational capabilities. Emotional behavior is a kind of mechanisms to produce simplified response out of vast amounts of information that had to be processed fast (and not necessarily in great detail). Things changed a lot since then and nowadays the game-of-life competition includes a lot of gimmickry which relies heavily on exploiting emotions¹! The said autistic nature may be as well the direction in which the entire humanity is heading to.

¹ This started long ago before Edward Bernays and it will get more and more intense with time.

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