I'm really impressed you used Julia in production. Despite its immaturity and all the reasons you mentioned, building your product on it is a testament to the language, its potential and the core group working on it. I wonder what the performance differences in your product are going from Julia to python? I've had my eye on it for the last two years and really look forward to its 1.0 release. There is no doubt there…
I'm currently using julia to write automated continuous testing for a computer chip. My only beef is that it isn't zero indexed. I probably could have done it with python, but IMO the language just is cleaner and easier to read. The macro system helps, a lot. The typesystem also gives me confidence in the correctness of some of the stranger code I'm emitting. It's a really great prototyping language for mathematical…
Retro on the Julia Programming Language
11–20 of 32 posts
Re: Retro on the Julia Programming Language
#12Happily, the present situation is more rosy than it has ever been. Funding agencies are beginning to realize that academic software development is an activity worth funding in its own right, not necessarily tied to research. Julia Computing has also been fortunate to receive funding from organizations such as the Moore Foundation to work on precisely the tools that users most need, but are difficult to justify development with research funds.
Re: Retro on the Julia Programming Language
#13The issues about the lack of tooling and stability are well heeded. Unfortunately, we at the Julia Lab at MIT, like our colleagues that are the JuMP group at the MIT ORC, are limited to working on things that can be justified as research activities. Developing new algorithms and applying them to scientific computing activities is research; writing a debugger and testing framework is not. For non-research development…
Re: Retro on the Julia Programming Language
#14I'm really impressed you used Julia in production. Despite its immaturity and all the reasons you mentioned, building your product on it is a testament to the language, its potential and the core group working on it. I wonder what the performance differences in your product are going from Julia to python? I've had my eye on it for the last two years and really look forward to its 1.0 release. There is no doubt there…
Data scientist in the financial industry here. I speak for more than myself when I say I look forward to the day when Julia is 1.0.
Re: Retro on the Julia Programming Language
#15I use Julia extensively for scientific research. It's such a great language though that I wish I could use it for more than that. I find that writing Python code irks me after programming in Julia for a day. I almost feel like there should be two versions of Julia: a commercial version that focuses on stability and is usable in production systems, and a scientific version that undergoes constant revision/feature over…
At work most people agreed with the technical insights - it's just a super language, but everyone thought that it was impossible to use it in any real project and very quickly discarded it even as a hobby tool. The clue is / was in the versioning - 0.3; 0.4 now 0.5. Things are broken and major things will change.
I think that this is really good, and important. Getting Julia right may really matter in the future. Code that costs less to write, runs faster and is easier to maintain is an underpinning capability for our economy and for science. Julia could be a huge enabler.
Having said that I find myself having a meltdown over 0.5 (specifically I had a tantrum yesterday when everything broke). I wanted to do some stuff on a private laptop so set up an env under windows. I jumped versions from 0.3.9 to 0.5.3478 because - why not? I'd also been using a 0.4 dev version sometimes, it worked ok but there was one issue that made me normally run 0.3.9 which was fine. However, Atom couldn't cope because HttpServer is @unix_only (whatever the that means, even the complier didn't know, it just said "documentation error")... I had about 100 compile errors in my code due to "' ' not allowed before '(' in foo (bar, bee)" but ok I just fixed those, one of the things that attracted me to Julia was whitespace liberalism, a minor irritation with Python, I find it easier to read code with a bit more whitespace. The trip wire was that I got the same thing from dependencies - like DataStructures.jl
This is intentional by the devs (I put an issue on GitHub and it got closed with that note). I do like "lets get it right", but even as someone just messing about with prime numbers in the evenings I can feel the pain of anyone who is trying to do more significant things. On the other hand a fork like the one you describe is going to be bad - Python 2/3 bad, and Julia is in no way as established as Python was when it had it's fork. The consequences are that the stable libraries are going to have to focus on the stable build and the problem is that at that point the dev version is irrelevant.
For Julia that is a big problem. There is a lot to do in terms of developing the core infrastructure in the language, see the idea of a registry in 0.6 or shrinking base and having a standard library for example. I do think that there is a worry that in covering off all cases and requirements the lovely simplicity of Julia may get diluted, the registry is especially a worry here because dealing with config files and issues is one of my bugbears and I was hoping Julia would stop this nonsense by "just use Git".
Still - I picked up Java at 0.7 and it really became useful at 1.4 Julia is on a much better trajectory already!
Re: Retro on the Julia Programming Language
#16Re: Retro on the Julia Programming Language
#17At the core, most programming languages are quite similar, but the developer tools and communities shape the culture and ultimately the roadmap of the language.
Absolutely not.
> The developer tools and communities shape the culture and ultimately the roadmap of the language.
Absolutely so. My fellow PL-ers sometimes forget this part :)---Thankfully this is changing.
Re: Retro on the Julia Programming Language
#18Re: Retro on the Julia Programming Language
#19I use Julia extensively for scientific research. It's such a great language though that I wish I could use it for more than that. I find that writing Python code irks me after programming in Julia for a day. I almost feel like there should be two versions of Julia: a commercial version that focuses on stability and is usable in production systems, and a scientific version that undergoes constant revision/feature over…
I've been messing about with Julia for a couple of years, I did a few tech talks about it at work and wrote a few side projects in it. At work most people agreed with the technical insights - it's just a super language, but everyone thought that it was impossible to use it in any real project and very quickly discarded it even as a hobby tool. The clue is / was in the versioning - 0.3; 0.4 now 0.5. Things are broken…
Re: Retro on the Julia Programming Language
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been messing about with Julia for a couple of years, I did a few tech talks about it at work and wrote a few side projects in it. At work most people agreed with the technical insights - it's just a super language, but everyone thought that it was impossible to use it in any real project and very quickly discarded it even as a hobby tool. The clue is / was in the versioning - 0.3; 0.4 now 0.5. Things are broken…
I wonder how you managed to have public access to Java 0.7, internal Sun releases?
Not sure why I thought 0.7, perhaps I was wishful thinking wrt. how much change happened in early Java, but I think that the conventions of version numbering hadn't settled in the same way as they have now.