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Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium

nytimes.com

171–180 of 250 posts

Re: Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium

#171
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try serving people Dolphin or Chimp and you find quickly there is a line for most people.

Try serving them a pig with the head still attached, similar reaction, next day bacon for breakfast. Don't want to think about that real animal stuff, I doubt the line has much to do with the intelligence of the species.

I actually have had suckling pig; it still smells like bacon so people get over it pretty quickly. I also bet people don't consider pigs to be as smart as they are.

Re: Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium

#172
A number of years ago I kept two octopuses in captivity and I always enjoy reading articles like this, I wish more people took an interest in them and I’m glad to see the audience at HN does.

They really are remarkable animals and unbelievably inquisitive. Trying to keep them from escaping, even from a relatively small 250 gallon tank was always a challenge and I can only imagine how difficult it is to retrofit the larger tanks they inhabit at public aquariums to be escape proof.

They two I kept were incredibly tactile in their curiosity and loved exploring my arms/hands whenever I put them into their tank. They would readily eat small crabs and shrimp right from my fingers and seemed to like playing tug of war, clinging to my hand with a few tentacles and them some of the heavier rocks with the others. Lego blocks, clear acrylic piping, small plastic toys would keep them busy for hours on end.

Many people don’t realize this but they are unfortunately (or fortunately for humans) remarkably short lived. Most species live only for 1-1.5 years and even the Giant Pacific Octopus usually only lives for 3-5 years. I would always jokingly remark to friends that if they had a longer life span on the order of a decade or more, they probably would have invented some kind of breathing apparatus and conquered land long ago. They would probably have a much more advanced space program by now as well.

Re: Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium

#174
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you against eating all animals or is there a cut off point of intelligence after which it stops being okay? Most of what is/isn't acceptable to eat is based on history and popular socially accepted practices, not whether people think their prospective dinner is intelligent. Pigs are more intelligent than dogs yet the latter are not eaten in the western world and I wouldn't want to live in a world without the (del…

As a non-vegetarian (for now), my standpoint is that I/we should try as hard as possible to ensure that the sourcing of food is sustainable, humane and ethical for the animals involved. In the usual agricultural animals this is usually straightforward and easy as a consumer — think organically-fed, free-range chickens. I agree with you that social norms (esp. in your dog/pig example) put irrational values on propensi…

It's hard to escape the fact that, on average, our ethical circle has only expanded and not contracted. That animals should one day be inside this circle seems inevitable.

If ventures like Memphis Meats[0] (meat without the animals) get off the ground the whole matter could become a non-issue.

[0]http://www.memphismeats.com/

Re: Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium

#175

A number of years ago I kept two octopuses in captivity and I always enjoy reading articles like this, I wish more people took an interest in them and I’m glad to see the audience at HN does. They really are remarkable animals and unbelievably inquisitive. Trying to keep them from escaping, even from a relatively small 250 gallon tank was always a challenge and I can only imagine how difficult it is to retrofit the l…

It's a rational conjecture that hunters tend to strive to continue winning the intelligence arms race over prey, and that technology tends (but not always) is an emergent property from this set of species.

Re: Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium

#177

A similar interesting octopus story not mentioned in the article: A particular light in a German aquarium kept short-circuiting and no one could figure out why. Using camera surveillance it was finally discovered that every night, the octopus would climb to the edge of his tank and shoot a jet of water on the light, shorting it. It was speculated that the light had been bothering the octopus' nocturnal routine. http:…

Another (apocryphal?) octopus story: fish from an aquarium tank disappearing every night, and staff after installing cameras found the octopus crawling out of its tank and eating them. Hence, tanks at Monterey Aquarium are lined with Astroturf which resists octopi suckers.

Re: Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if we're willing to grant that non-human animals are worthy of ethical consideration and accept that we don't need meat to be healthy or happy, how can slaughtering them for food be considered ethical? >In the usual agricultural animals this is usually straightforward and easy as a consumer — think organically-fed, free-range chickens. I'd counter that it's incredibly not straight forward for consumers. In the US…

> how can slaughtering [animals] for food be considered ethical? Life begets life. Death is part of life. Where necessary, living requires killing. Where people cultivate The Golden Rule, life will get better and death will get fewer.

It is not required anymore. You can live fine without. So no.

Re: Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium

#179

I'm currently reading The Soul of an Octopus and it's really joy inspiring. Part pop-science, part memoir, part inter-species romance. If you just come in for science you'll be annoyed by Clever Hans effect and confirmation bias, but that's all pop science writing on animal intelligence. http://amazon.com/The-Soul-Octopus-Exploration-Consciousness...

if anyone’s interested in a science fiction take, Steven Baxter’s “Manifold: Time” has a subplot involving intelligence-enhanced cephalopods. It’s one of my favorite hard sci-fi reads…

Thanks for the recommendation, that looks really interesting. I'm always on the look out for interesting hard(er) scifi.

Re: Inky the octopus breaks out of New Zealand aquarium

#180
post #50
post #7

It upsets me to no end that we find evidence such as this piece that cephalopods are actually (relatively speaking) remarkably more intelligent than common wisdom pertains[0], and yet the culinary abuse and harm (i.e. 'live sushi/sashimi') of these creatures continues. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_intelligence

Are you against eating all animals or is there a cut off point of intelligence after which it stops being okay? Most of what is/isn't acceptable to eat is based on history and popular socially accepted practices, not whether people think their prospective dinner is intelligent. Pigs are more intelligent than dogs yet the latter are not eaten in the western world and I wouldn't want to live in a world without the (del…

There is a cut off point as most people here would not eat humans (come on, how are human babies intelligent?) dolpins or dogs. Eating pigs just makes people hypocrites; people just ignore it and stuff it away as you need bacon and it is too annoying to face all this pesky stuff.

And 'would not want to live in a world without'? That is a strange remark on many levels; if pigs are deamed sentient tomorrow and hence offlimits like humans you go for suicide or become a criminal?

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