Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vim 8.0 is coming

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 420 posts

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#371

Post by Karunamon »

coldtea wrote: post #354
Karunamon wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's "we"? If someone reaches a maximum of productivity using an editor made in the 70's, who is anyone else to tell them otherwise? Preferred tooling for reaching maximum productivity is an inherently personal thing - you may do your best in emacs, the other guy in vi, yet someone else in Sublime3 on Windows. Nobody is qualified to make broad sweeping judgments as to what works best for everyone. A few try, and som…

> Who's "we"? If someone reaches a maximum of productivity using an editor made in the 70's, who is anyone else to tell them otherwise? Unless they work for themselves, that "anyone" can be: colleagues, supervisors, bosses, teachers, and even clients, and also industry experts and seasoned pros telling best practices. > Preferred tooling for reaching maximum productivity is an inherently personal thing - you may do y…

The question was not about regulation - of course you can tell anyone to do whatever nonoptimal bullshit you want if you have power over them.

I'm asking what gives anyone the ability to make a correct judgment about tools and productivity?

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#372

Post by sevensor »

sooheon wrote: post #293
sevensor wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between bdw and daw? I already use "b", "e", and "w" quite a lot, so the "a" and "i" infixes seem a little redundant. Is there an advantage to the infixes that I'm not seeing?

Try doing `cas` (change a sentence) or `dib` (delete in brackets), and on and on for all your different text objects. This infix notations are not redundant, because they are not motions like `b` `e` `w` are, but adjectives to be applied to the nouns which are text objects.

It looks like I need to learn what the text objects are. I learned vi about 20 years ago, and I've been using vim like vi ever since.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#373

Post by nsajko »

coldtea wrote: post #163
nsajko wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vi is not Vim.

Actually it is. Not only in the sense that Vim is a clone of vi (with added stuff), but more specifically in that in lots of distros the vi command is just vim (with some special flags). Old BSD vi today is, and has been for over a decade or so, dead.

You could say that Vim is an (implementation of) vi, but vi is not Vim.

(Not that this is an important issue.)

Edit: also, vi is not dead: www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/vi

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#374

Post by criddell »

criddell wrote: post #284
bobajeff wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I guess we could be saying the same in 10 years about firefox and chrome That's pretty optimistic considering Firefox's current marketshare. Based on its momentum I'd say in 10 years, at best, I expect it to be where Opera was before it became a Chromium fork. For now Firefox does things better than Chrome but I don't expect them to keep up when it becomes a community project. It'll be like using Opera used to be.

Didn't Firefox just announce that future plans include moving to Chromium?

I went back to see if I could find where I read that and it was here:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/04/11/future_of_firefox_is...

But since that was published, another article was published:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2454466/mozilla-is-...

So there was no announcement, just some experiments.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#375

Post by apricot »

ori_b wrote: post #335
whyever wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does groff do formulas?

Using separate programs like eqn. ( http://www.kohala.com/start/troff/v7man/eqn/eqn2e.ps )

Sorry, but eqn is just not in the same league as LaTeX. It's okay for simple equations, but as can be seen from the document you linked, it produces awful output as soon as the equations become a little bit complex.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#376

Post by ttflee »

pjmlp wrote: post #10
pvinis wrote: post #4

I have vim, neovim and emacs (and spacemacs) installed. Right now I'm trying to get into emacs a bit more. What's interesting to me, and the reason I try to keep up to date with the latest changes for all four editors, is that it's been now, what, 25 years (?) since emacs and vim started "competing" and they still are. I guess we could be saying the same in 10 years about firefox and chrome, but it still is amazing i…

I became an heavy Emacs user as I could not find the comfort of Borland IDEs in UNIX, as I started to use it. Since I moved away from C++ into Java and .NET land, never felt the need to use them any longer. And nowadays, with Qt Creator, Clion, xCode, AppCode and VS, I also don't feel the need of them when I need to go back to C++. It is very good to know the basics from plain Vi, because there are still commercial U…

> why there are still people that enjoy working as if their computers are using a 25 year old developer experience.

The carbon footprint is much nicer.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#377

Post by pyre »

pklausler wrote: post #307
dkns wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I have emacs init.el file that I'd like to tinker with from time to time but every time I try to make switch I feel like I'm using a system consisting of thousands of moving parts which constantly break. It's completely awesome that you can change anything in emacs however you want but time and time again I realize that I'd rather have a rock solid editor with small api that let's you customize few things.

Write one, then. I did. It's not hard. Mine's about 7K lines of code and it's the perfect text editor for me.

Do you have fun integrating every new mode that you might like to use when you decide to open a source file for a new programming language?

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#378

Post by twblalock »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #316
Ericson2314 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's hope not.

Hey, why the downvote? I respect the good work that has been put into emacs and vim over the decades, and the good kick-in-the-but that spacemacs and neovim provide too. That said, programing via editing text is a completely primitive method, and I hope things like http://unisonweb.org/ will replace it. Even if one is not on-board the structured editing concept, with so much changing about the way we use computers an…

I like the idea that people who want to use things will be able to continue using them in the future. Nobody is forcing you to use them.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#379

Post by todd8 »

majewsky wrote: post #318
melling wrote: post #132

I've been trying to evaluate the different editors. https://github.com/melling/EditorNotes/blob/master/vim.org To me it feels like the vim key bindings are more efficient for programmers. No one has ever done a scientific comparison, and it always seems to end in a religious war, but we should do a better job of evaluating our tools. Then hopefully, we can improve them.

The problem with evaluating editor efficiency is that you are more likely to measure the user's proficiency. The vim editing style is only as efficient as the number of motions that you know. (I use about half of them actively, but I have a lot of vim users sitting around me that barely know "w".) So to really compare efficiency of, say, Emacs vs. vim, you will first need to find two users. One who is as proficient i…

Yes, but there are a number of people that have gone though periods of using one and then the other. I have, at least anecdotal, experience with both.

I worked on the first release of AIX for IBM. Their lawyers took a couple of years to get comfortable with the Emacs license so I switched to using vi for two or three years. (At one point I had to demo a Lisp system running on AIX at at AAAI conference and I could barely work the built in emacs-based editor.) Eventually, I was able to switch back to Emacs on AIX.

My own preference is Emacs for it's breadth of features and its customizations, but I still miss the feeling of speed that I had while navigating source code with Vi or Vim. I still toy with Vim every so often, but I've forgotten so much that I just plod along. Spacemacs is currently on my system, but I usually prefer my own set of customizations and just stick with Emacs and its ordinary bindings. Nevertheless, Spacemacs is an work of genius.

I'd encourage everyone to learn basic vi (say what's taught in the tutorial), it's everywhere. After that, IMHO, either of these ancient editors is wonderful and worth adopting.

Someday I'm hoping that a new Emacs will be developed built along the lines of Neovim. Digging into the internals of a big Emacs package is pretty painful for me when all I am doing is trying to fix some aspect of my editing experience (see https://xkcd.com/1205/). I'd like a more modern extension language than elisp. While I'm dreaming, someone please rewrite LaTeX to use a real programming language instead of its Turing complete macro language.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#380

Post by krisdol »

sneak wrote: post #137
xutopia wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I value very different things than you do. Vim and Emacs have a more difficult learning curve but the beauty of it... and configuring it to your liking is that it can surpass in speed and capabilities what some very convenient editors can do for a single language. I use MacVim and my .vimrc file follows me around wherever I go. My experience is great in my editor because the few minutes I invested here and there have…

> I use MacVim and my .vimrc file follows me around wherever I go. Minor nit in support of parent comment: no it doesn't, you have to copy or sync it around yourself. Atom is a great example of an editor that is aware of the internet existing. Vim, while my daily driver, is not.

>Atom is a great example of an editor that is aware of the internet existing. Vim, while my daily driver, is not.

In what way?

Post reply on HN