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Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

startupvisa.com

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Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#61

Post by potatolicious »

ericb wrote: post #50
briansmith wrote: post #26

This would just allow the rich and connected to choose thousands of people to budge to the front of a 3-5 year long line that other green gard applicants (EB-3) are waiting in. If there are resources available to process more EB-5's and EB-6's, then put them to use accelerating the process for the people that have already waited years for their applications to be approved. Accelerate that process and you'll accelerat…

Speaking from a country's self interest, don't rich people benefit the country more than poor? Isn't the US better off tax-wise, and wealthier, if it is able to tax a millionaire than a cab driver? Is there something morally objectionable about trying to attract "desirables" or is it just that we need to see the visa process in some way as "fair?"

Speaking as a Canadian who immigrated from Asia, and know a large number of rich Asians who have also followed the same path, the situation is really not as simple as you put it.

The rich are in no way obligated to share their wealth with you - as the Canadian government has unfortunately learned. Our immigration programs have three paths: skilled labour, investment, and entrepreneurial. Skilled labour is simply letting people in who have skills we need, investment expects that you invest a $HIGH_AMOUNT into the Canadian economy (with the expectation, not requirement, of more), and entrepreneurial requires that you run your own business for $TIME before you qualify for citizenship.

The first category is usually a win for the country, since these people seek employment and are taxable, not to mention you didn't have to pay for their education.

The second and third categories are fundamentally broken - I personally know many families who do the absolute bare minimum to hit the permanent residency requirements, and keep all of their wealth off the books in Asia, bringing them in literal suitcases of cash (staying just under the declaration limit each time). Heck, I know families that are receiving government benefits for low-income families even though they have millions in property overseas.

My point is, unless you require rich immigrants to give up a huge chunk of money just to get in, expecting that the rich will contribute to your tax base is IMHO misguided. These people are already rich, for cryin' out loud.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#62

Post by tptacek »

odeoncg wrote: post #58
tptacek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you beat $1MM in revenue within 2 years of starting? We did. (a) It wasn't easy. (b) Before we beat that metric, we were still --- by virtually anyone on Hacker News' metrics --- a successful enterprise: growing, in control of our destiny, working on meaningful things, creating jobs. The metrics in this bill are arbitrary (to put it charitably; there's an uncharitable interpretation too). A Thai entrepeneur who…

True. Until that 1$ in revenue is reached, the company still makes revenue and ensures jobs for people, some might have even more than 5 employees.

5 American employees. Maybe they'll move to Singapore when the founder is forced to relocate the company?

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#63

Post by anamax »

fnid2 wrote: post #56
briansmith wrote: post #26

This would just allow the rich and connected to choose thousands of people to budge to the front of a 3-5 year long line that other green gard applicants (EB-3) are waiting in. If there are resources available to process more EB-5's and EB-6's, then put them to use accelerating the process for the people that have already waited years for their applications to be approved. Accelerate that process and you'll accelerat…

It's entrepreneurial servitude. You come in and build a business to our specifications, making a certain amount of money for the rich investors or you lose your rights to live here. When the entrepreneur is booted out because (s)he was unable to generate $1M in revenue a year after 2 years in business, what happens to the business? Do the investors retain ownership? What legal rights does the entrepreneur have over t…

> There are no laws in America protecting the rights of these entrepreneurs who are not citizens. They are here to build a business, hopefully, but if they miss the marks, they lose everything! Their home, their business, their employees, and potentially the rights to any revenues, IP, or equity in the company they founded.

Where are you getting this from?

Non-residents can own things that happen to be in the US. They can sell them. They can even buy them.

Even if you're deported, there's no forfeiture.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#64

Post by pg »

briansmith wrote: post #26

This would just allow the rich and connected to choose thousands of people to budge to the front of a 3-5 year long line that other green gard applicants (EB-3) are waiting in. If there are resources available to process more EB-5's and EB-6's, then put them to use accelerating the process for the people that have already waited years for their applications to be approved. Accelerate that process and you'll accelerat…

That's such a dishonest way of describing the situation that it's hard to believe it wasn't deliberate. You describe this bill as if it merely allowed powerful people to get their friends into the country, and it's not like that at all. Startup investors are not identical with the rich and connected. Angel investors are generally fairly rich, but not all VCs are. And they're not choosing people at random to bring into the country. They have to invest money in someone's startup to do that.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#65

Post by ajju »

tptacek wrote: post #43
neurotech1 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the senate statement; " a minimum of $250,000 -- into the immigrant's startup venture. If after two years the immigrant entrepreneur can show that he or she has generated at least 5 full-time jobs in the United States, attracted $1,000,000 in additional investment capital, or achieved $1,000,000 in revenue, then he or she would receive permanent legal resident status." My personal thoughts are that it should be…

Have you beat $1MM in revenue within 2 years of starting? We did. (a) It wasn't easy. (b) Before we beat that metric, we were still --- by virtually anyone on Hacker News' metrics --- a successful enterprise: growing, in control of our destiny, working on meaningful things, creating jobs. The metrics in this bill are arbitrary (to put it charitably; there's an uncharitable interpretation too). A Thai entrepeneur who…

Isn't it true that it is $1MM in revenue within 2 years of getting a visa?

So you could apply when you had $500K in revenues.

Also, I don't know for sure if the qualifying clauses for not being deported have an "and" relationship or an "or" relationship.

Do I need to raise a million dollars AND generate a million in revenue AND generate 5 jobs? Or is one of these enough?

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#67

Post by rajat »

Why not just expand the number of qualified people to which we give green cards? Admit that if you qualify for a H1-B visa, you should be eligible for a green card. This eliminates H1-B visa abuses, protects the H1-B applicant from abuse, and most importantly, allows skilled people to come to this country. Some of them will undoubtedly start their own companies.

We might have a serious illegal immigration problem in this country, but admitting skilled immigrants is certainly something we should want to encourage.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#68

Post by tptacek »

ajju wrote: post #65
tptacek wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you beat $1MM in revenue within 2 years of starting? We did. (a) It wasn't easy. (b) Before we beat that metric, we were still --- by virtually anyone on Hacker News' metrics --- a successful enterprise: growing, in control of our destiny, working on meaningful things, creating jobs. The metrics in this bill are arbitrary (to put it charitably; there's an uncharitable interpretation too). A Thai entrepeneur who…

Isn't it true that it is $1MM in revenue within 2 years of getting a visa ? So you could apply when you had $500K in revenues. Also, I don't know for sure if the qualifying clauses for not being deported have an "and" relationship or an "or" relationship. Do I need to raise a million dollars AND generate a million in revenue AND generate 5 jobs? Or is one of these enough?

If you're at 500k already, you can probably pull off an EB-5.

Regardless, I'm not all that concerned about the 500k entrepreneurs.

I'm unclear on the "and" and "or" thing, too, but I think it's equally arbitrary to deport someone with 4 full-time employees for missing a $1MM mark, and I think 5 "full-time" employees is extremely gameable.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#69

Post by neurotech1 »

tptacek wrote: post #41
neurotech1 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did mis-interpret the gist of the bill. The VC funders have less significantly less control than a employer of a H-1B visa. Basically they are saying you have a 2 years (max 3 years) to meet the requirements (investment and jobs)of the visa, or go home. A EB-5 visa has a 2 year "conditional status" along similar lines. A H-1B visa, the employer can terminate your job, and you have 30 days to leave the country. A…

H1-Bs are also bad. And, H1-B's aside, I'm not sure you actually refuted my interpretation of the bill. I cited its plain text. My question is, is there some other law or propose legislation that mitigates the impact of this bill? If there is, I'll stand corrected.

The part that I'm refuting is that they HAVE to raise $1m from VCs.

From the legislation you quoted;

"‘‘(II) raise not less than $1,000,000 in capital investment in furtherance of a commercial entity based in the United States; or ‘‘(III) generate not less than $1,000,000 in revenue."

Note that it says OR

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#70

Post by [deleted] »

anamax wrote: post #63
fnid2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entrepreneurial servitude. You come in and build a business to our specifications, making a certain amount of money for the rich investors or you lose your rights to live here. When the entrepreneur is booted out because (s)he was unable to generate $1M in revenue a year after 2 years in business, what happens to the business? Do the investors retain ownership? What legal rights does the entrepreneur have over t…

> There are no laws in America protecting the rights of these entrepreneurs who are not citizens. They are here to build a business, hopefully, but if they miss the marks, they lose everything! Their home, their business, their employees, and potentially the rights to any revenues, IP, or equity in the company they founded. Where are you getting this from? Non-residents can own things that happen to be in the US. The…

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