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New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

nytimes.com

61–70 of 121 posts

Re: New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

#61
I find this discovery very interesting when juxtaposed against a similar discovery on the other side of the continent:

"A Revolutionary Discovery in China" by Ian Johnson http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/04/21/revolutionary-dis...

The manuscripts’ importance stems from their particular antiquity. Carbon dating places their burial at about 300 BCE. This was the height of the Warring States Period, an era of turmoil that ran from the fifth to the third centuries BCE. During this time, the Hundred Schools of Thought arose, including Confucianism, which concerns hierarchical relationships and obligations in society; Daoism (or Taoism), and its search to unify with the primordial force called Dao (or Tao); Legalism, which advocated strict adherence to laws; and Mohism, and its egalitarian ideas of impartiality.

...

Do these old texts matter today? They do in several ways. One has to do with the antiquity of China’s written culture. In the West, many classic texts, for example by Homer or stories in the Bible, are widely accepted as having been oral works that later were written down—a view of history picked up by Gu and the antiquity-doubters of the early twentieth century. Even though Gu was sidelined in China, his heirs in the West have tended to dismiss traditional views that important works in China were written down early on, or even composed as written texts. For many of these skeptical Westerners, Chinese efforts to prove the antiquity of their culture is closet chauvinism, or part of a project to glorify the Chinese state by exaggerating the antiquity of Chinese civilization.

But the new discoveries should give pause to this skepticism. Allan argues that the texts were indeed primarily written down, and not transcribed oral tales. Besides the Daodejing, only a few of the texts excavated over the past twenty years have mnemonic devices or rhyme. She writes that even the texts that claim to be speeches of ancient kings originated as literary compositions. And as the Guodian texts show, works like the Daodejing took a written form earlier than skeptics believed, possibly even as early as the traditionalists have always claimed.

Re: New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mormons who study the book of Mormon don't exactly qualify as good sources, nor are Christians who study the Bible, nor are Muslims who study the Koran as all are extremely biased by their beliefs. Such people look for evidence to justify beliefs rather than looking at evidence to decide what should be believed.

It follows from your reasoning that it would be unwise to follow a scientist who believes in science, then.

How does one "believe" in science?

Re: New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

#63
post #34
post #11

So the large takeaway is that people in further back ancient Israel were more literate than originally thought, opening up the prospect that the Bible could easily have been written earlier than what some scholars speculated. Correct?

Which is kind of a silly theory, since writing was invented in that part of the world circa 3500 BCE. It's more likely that their religious practices were limited to the priesthood, and it wasn't until the exile that they were written and compiled into a standardized format. In fact, this theory isn't foreign to Jewish tradition, nor to how other religions have operated throughout the years.

Exactly. In fact I have huge doubts about the usage of the term "evidence" here: literacy concerns cannot provide evidence on the time the Biblical texts were written, they simply shed light on the culture at the time. Real evidence in this context means uncovering early copies, comparing Biblical records of events with other accounts etc.

Re: New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mormons who study the book of Mormon don't exactly qualify as good sources, nor are Christians who study the Bible, nor are Muslims who study the Koran as all are extremely biased by their beliefs. Such people look for evidence to justify beliefs rather than looking at evidence to decide what should be believed.

It follows from your reasoning that it would be unwise to follow a scientist who believes in science, then.

Science isn't a faith, and even then to combat bias it's testable knowledge is subject to peer review.

Re: New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

#65
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to whom? You can't use the book to prove itself, just because it claims to have been from 600 BC doesn't make it so.

I think people are confusing the publication date and setting of the story/account within it. Star Wars took place a "long time ago" but we don't try to prove it either way -- it's just the setting of the story, whether or not it really happened.

Are you saying it would further the discussion on a thread about actual ancient artifacts if I came in and described how interesting it was that it correlated with some stories from, say, Battlestar Galactica?

Re: New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

#67
post #2

> literacy may have been far more widespread than previously known in the Holy Land around 600 B.C., toward the end of the First Temple period. Interesting correlation to the Book of Mormon, which originates ~600 BC in Jerusalem. In fact, page 1, verse 2 says: > 2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians. And further discusses how…

> the Book of Mormon, which originates ~600 BC in Jerusalem.

That's delusional bullshit.

Re: New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

#68
post #2

> literacy may have been far more widespread than previously known in the Holy Land around 600 B.C., toward the end of the First Temple period. Interesting correlation to the Book of Mormon, which originates ~600 BC in Jerusalem. In fact, page 1, verse 2 says: > 2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians. And further discusses how…

> Interesting correlation to the Book of Mormon, which originates ~600 BC in Jerusalem. The Book of Mormon was written in 1830. Am I missing something here?

[deleted]

Re: New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

#69
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/mholt6/status/720086233754370048 https://twitter.com/mholt6/status/720104906724663296 Stay classy, Matt.

Nobody was commenting with reasons for the down votes. What's classy about that?

It's been an hour. Have you given people a fair chance to respond?

Re: New Evidence on When Bible Was Written

#70
post #42

So somebody found some commercial records in Hebrew, and this immediately gets extrapolated into religion. Somebody is obsessing. Nine out of ten surviving Babylonian tablets are financial records.[1] There are surviving financial records from Ur two millennia older than Christianity. [1] http://viking.som.yale.edu/will/finciv/chapter1.htm

> Somebody is obsessing.

Welcome to biblical studies.

This is relevant because people have traditionally argued for later dates based on literacy rates; this provides shaky evidence against that argument. It's more like the null hypothesis than firm dating data in itself.

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