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Facebook Messenger Platform

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Re: Facebook Messenger Platform

#181

I'm crying. Remember when messaging was built on open platforms and standards like XMPP and IRC? The golden year(s?) when Google Talk worked with AIM and anyone could choose whatever client they preferred? Welcome to the future friends when we must pay to battle the keymasters and gatekeepers on their terms to do what we used to do ourselves, for free. First they took my RSS, then they took my XMPP... Who can guess w…

HTTP

...even worse, HTML. Someday Facebook will decide that HTML is not enough for them and will make users install its own pseud-browser.

Re: Facebook Messenger Platform

#182

I'm crying. Remember when messaging was built on open platforms and standards like XMPP and IRC? The golden year(s?) when Google Talk worked with AIM and anyone could choose whatever client they preferred? Welcome to the future friends when we must pay to battle the keymasters and gatekeepers on their terms to do what we used to do ourselves, for free. First they took my RSS, then they took my XMPP... Who can guess w…

And XMPP has consistently been behind on innovation. I used IRC and Jabber for a really long time. I don't know how long I was waiting for basic audio and video chat in XMPP, which is now a standard thing in almost all proprietary communication systems. People have been wanting those features for a very long time and they migrated away from the open systems because they were consistently behind on features.

I don't understand why open seems to immediately mean better and proprietary is bad. I'm all for an open system if the benefit is clear, but it often makes no difference and ultimately comes down to how the project/software is managed. There are a lot of "open" software products that are controlled by a few and thus, not very open.

Re: Facebook Messenger Platform

#183

This seems kinda disappointing in capability compared with what you see in WeChat. I was expecting you'd be able to build apps that run from inside messenger, instead of toggle back and forth between native apps, possibly using something like ExponentJS/Reactive-Native, but maybe Apple would disapprove. The WeChat SDK allows apps to run JS from inside WeChat itself. You see this in action in China where you can actua…

How do you write an app for WeChat? Their documentation at http://dev.wechat.com/ only talks about sharing content with WeChat users.

Re: Facebook Messenger Platform

#184
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real question is can you get in, win, and get out before any of that matters. If you 'rode the facebook apps' wave you probably made decent money unless you stayed in too long. Another strategy is to build an integration to messenger to get exposure for your totally independant app. For example If i made some pizza ordering ai, i could hook it up to messenger as an additional channel.

There's a word for people who only care about their own quality of life, and not that of those around them: "assholes". Don't be an asshole, and don't advocate "fuck you got mine" practices like these. Let's work to dismantle abusive systems like Facebook.

You start.

Re: Facebook Messenger Platform

#185
post #68
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't build on it. Period. If you don't like what Facebook is doing, don't build on it. Don't use it. People who built on others' platform shouldn't expect utopia. You don't own the house, you are just a tenant. Contract is done you are out. Well, there isn't much of any contract between you and Facebook Platform anyway.

Well he probably won't. But just one person avoiding it isn't going to make a difference. You have to let everyone else know it is a bad idea.

No, you have to make a better idea so people switch to you. You cant replace something with a vacuum.

Re: Facebook Messenger Platform

#186

Everyone seems to be jumping on the bots bandwagon - Microsoft, Facebook, Slack etc. Do we really think this kind of text-based interaction is the future? Granted, it's an interface practically everyone knows how to use, but I believe it could result in rather long conversations (what are the available commands/questions?) to actually get something a little more complex done. Our messaging startup is heading in the o…

Natural languages are terrible interfaces. They're linear, verbose, inexpressive, ambiguous. Clearly, we need a computer-assisted language to elevate humanity's ability to communicate. Such a platform could be as important as Gutenberg's printing press.

GUIs?

Re: Facebook Messenger Platform

#187
post #104

It is now time to take all the innovations that have been happening in china around WeChat/WeiXin and to implement them into messenger. This time it's the other way around, we are actually going to copy the Chinese (they have had an API addressable messaging platform way before us and are ahead of us in the exploration of what work / is possible) : - this may disrupt Local business/shop relation to client. (see how w…

> - this may disrupt paypal, as soon as you can send 'money' over a messaging app. American banking is so backwards and this will only make it worse. In Australia and New Zealand, no bank offers you checks. Do I own you $50? Well give me your BSB and account number. I type it into my phone app or web browser, type $50 and click send. It shows up tomorrow morning. Works on weekends, holidays, ANZAC day, New Years Day…

It's been within 2 hours for the past 3 years in New Zealand (govt requirement).

Re: Facebook Messenger Platform

#188
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://youtu.be/ryIQYYogQ8A I've literally never owned a plunger in my whole life, and I don't know anybody who does. It baffles me everything I'm in the US and every toilet has a plunger!

Why wouldn't these be the default in all new construction everywhere? Are there downsides?

Not that I'm aware of. Lived in NZ for 5 years and just moved into a brand new construction in CA just a few months back. Terrible. I've had to plunge(technically I use the scrubber to generate the pressure) a few times already :(

Also, the showers mostly all have baskets under the drain caps to capture hair and stuff now.

Re: Facebook Messenger Platform

#190
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural languages are terrible interfaces. They're linear, verbose, inexpressive, ambiguous. Clearly, we need a computer-assisted language to elevate humanity's ability to communicate. Such a platform could be as important as Gutenberg's printing press.

I don't know what that means, but you've got my attention. Could you elaborate on what you have in mind?

# PROBLEM

Software is fragmented. This leads to poor user experience.

- I have 100+ apps on my phone

- I have 1000+ online accounts

I need to discover these apps/websites/services, repeat the same information over and over again, learn their features and limitations. They don't talk to each other, which means that I need to continuously update them. We're humans, we're smart, we adapt easily, we got used to it, we don't even notice. However, when you take a step back and look at it, it's a mess.

Generally, when I try to show the problem to people, they blame the user. They say there's no need to use that many systems. And they're right. In the real world, I can get by using only English (or in my case, French) as a general-purpose communication interface.

The problem with software is that people tend to associate one system with one use-case. One app for this, one app for that. Do one thing, and do it well. That's the general direction a lot of software is going in (i.e., Facebook Messenger vs Facebook). When people tell me I should use fewer systems, they also imply that I should accept to cover fewer use-cases with software. And while most people think it's reasonable not to use software for various things (unlock doors, turn on lights, preheat oven, change channel, pay goods, track calories), I consider them short-sighted. We can't afford to choose which activities deserve the power of software and which can continue to be done the old-fashion (and so-called "simpler") way. We need software everywhere.

Beyond the consumer-facing UX fragmentation problems, as an application developer, I'm exposed to the even uglier side of things. The arbitrary design process, the compromise-ridden business decisions. Most people have no idea how expensive (in time and resources) it is to build the simplest of software in the real world. Take 100 different teams, and they'll all design the same system in completely different ways, repeating the very same mistakes. How many different user authentication systems have been implemented in the world? How many caching layers? How many ORMs? How many online stores (all with pretty much the very same features, from the image gallery to the cart). This is insane. This makes SAP look sexy.

Now, take the top 100 most popular apps and websites. List out all of their features. Remove duplicates. Remove duplicates. Generalize. Remove duplicates. You'll realize they all share 80% of the same features, probably more. Don't be tricked by functional synonyms. A like, an upvote, a favorite, a share, a retweet, a rating, a pin. They're all the same things. You can reduce the functionalities of most app to a very simple vocabulary. Basically, people have things, people want things. The only challenge is in describing things. And that's what we need a tool for.

# SOLUTION

The customer is NOT king.

Stop thinking that software should be tailored to its users. People don't know what they want. People have a tendency to under-generalize. They think that because two things look different, they're different. They're wrong.

There is not as much difference between hailing a cab, ordering a pizza, sharing a video, shipping a package, flying to Hawaii, renting a room, sending money, taking an elevator, and selling your couch, as people are lead to believe. They're essentially the same things, and software should treat them as such.

We need a general purpose communication platform. Not one monolithic app to which all possible features were added, but something that can be extended to a wide array of use cases. I'm not talking about plugins, micro-apps, or a web browser. These usually give too much freedom to developers, which once again results in fragmentation. I'm talking about a language, English on computer-steroids.

By communicating through a computer, this language gains access to the world's knowledge. This language can challenge your thoughts. This language can predict your thoughts. You only need to be as verbose as what the language doesn't already know about you. With time, the language becomes more like a to-do list a la Google Now (i.e., tells you what to do next) than a notepad. This language is your interface with the past, present and future world.

English is text-based and linear. You start from nothing, then a word, then a sentence. I don't want a language where you start with nothing. Start with the entire state of the entire world (as some sort of hyper-graph), communicate by editing it. Edit edges, introduce new nodes. One place for every idea. Never repeat, support instead. Invest your social credit to augment the credibility/value of facts. Use it as a way to describe both the past, present, and future (prediction and/or wish). Follow the path of PROLOG, RDF and lojban.

Graph-oriented communication is what the world needs. I believe we can make it accessible, not without a learning curve, by the use of inference and custom renderers. I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but I can't foresee it not being done.

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