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Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

nytimes.com

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Re: Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

#21

Post by jacquesm »

volomike wrote: post #19

Tsk. Why do web companies even worry about a problem like this? If it were me, I'd simply redirect all Italian web traffic from my site and onto a black page with a short explanation of the problem. And I'd make the switch at 1am. If my company were as popular as Google is, within a few short minutes there would be massive outrage such that politicians, journalists, judges, and police officers would be awoken from sl…

Collective punishment went out of fashion a long time ago, and besides, that's exactly what would play in to the hands of Berlusconi et al.

Google simply will appeal this and hopefully the appeal judge will be more sensible, if they're not the time for drastic measures may come but the fall out from that will be wildly unpredictable and it will hurt a lot of people that have nothing to do with this.

Re: Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

#22

Post by DrJokepu »

jacquesm wrote: post #21
volomike wrote: post #19

Tsk. Why do web companies even worry about a problem like this? If it were me, I'd simply redirect all Italian web traffic from my site and onto a black page with a short explanation of the problem. And I'd make the switch at 1am. If my company were as popular as Google is, within a few short minutes there would be massive outrage such that politicians, journalists, judges, and police officers would be awoken from sl…

Collective punishment went out of fashion a long time ago, and besides, that's exactly what would play in to the hands of Berlusconi et al. Google simply will appeal this and hopefully the appeal judge will be more sensible, if they're not the time for drastic measures may come but the fall out from that will be wildly unpredictable and it will hurt a lot of people that have nothing to do with this.

Actually, collective punishment is anything but out of fashion. Trade embargoes, for example, punish the whole population of countries instead of just the responsible people in the government.

Re: Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

#23

Post by jacquesm »

DrJokepu wrote: post #22
jacquesm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collective punishment went out of fashion a long time ago, and besides, that's exactly what would play in to the hands of Berlusconi et al. Google simply will appeal this and hopefully the appeal judge will be more sensible, if they're not the time for drastic measures may come but the fall out from that will be wildly unpredictable and it will hurt a lot of people that have nothing to do with this.

Actually, collective punishment is anything but out of fashion. Trade embargoes, for example, punish the whole population of countries instead of just the responsible people in the government.

I wished you were wrong about that :(

But in the case of a company duking it out with a government over the heads of the users 'out of fashion' was meant to be read as counter productive.

Trade embargoes are only a step removed from a blockage, which is considered an act of war.

Re: Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

#24

Post by antirez »

This is a political matter.

In every European nation, and even in the USA, if you make N televisions channels telling the same story about the poor boy victim of youtube you get more or less the same effect I bet.

The problem here is that all this is Berlusconi-driven. Guess what happens if everybody switch to youtube and internet instead to see what his ridiculous televisions are pushing? Loss of business.

The TV here is full of similar stuff about Facebook, for instance. They are doing an immense government-driven attempt to stop people using internet. Fortunately it's too late for them.

To make a parallel with USA, remember when enough communication convinced most americans that Iraq had mass destruction weapons? 90% of people don't think with their own heads. If the government and media are evil it's very hard to stop it.

This is not to defend Italy (I'm Italian btw). If we are under the this kind of control is our fault, but this youtube stuff is only the result, not the symptom IMHO.

Re: Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

#26

Post by hussong »

drtse4 wrote: post #2

Can you imagine the burden of opening a site a la facebook in a place like that? This is not a new approach, and that's the reason why you will never see a site like myspace/facebook/netlog/whatever... based in a privacy (with a distorted view of privacy) obsessed place like italy. Just sad.

The big difference between US and EU privacy laws and the corresponding personality rights is that, in most EU countries, every individual has the rights to their own image. You can't just go ahead, take their picture or video and make it publicly available without their consent. I guess most people see this as an important part of their privacy rights.

There are of course exceptions for public figures and events, and there's an interesting debate going on with lawsuit after lawsuit trying to balance freedom of the press with personality rights. At least in some cases it is hard to see how the benefit of the public seeing a politician in swim wear outweighs his or her rights to privacy.

This hasn't stopped sites Xing, StudiVZ or Hyves from becoming very popular sites and building successful businesses.

There's also an ongoing debate in Germany and other EU countries, to what extent UGC-sites are liable for their content and how much they should police it. Majority opinion: not liable, police some, react quickly to take-down notices (though your mileage may vary from court to court).

As for the case here, the main blame is clearly on the guys who shot and submitted the video. The question is whether Google has reacted appropriately to the take-down request and whether it has tried hard enough to keep the vid off of youtube (keeping an eye on the inevitable wave of re-uploads).

Re: Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

#27

Post by neilk »

jacquesm wrote: post #23
DrJokepu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, collective punishment is anything but out of fashion. Trade embargoes, for example, punish the whole population of countries instead of just the responsible people in the government.

I wished you were wrong about that :( But in the case of a company duking it out with a government over the heads of the users 'out of fashion' was meant to be read as counter productive. Trade embargoes are only a step removed from a blockage, which is considered an act of war.

I don't agree that such actions are too aggressive. In the era of South African apartheid, Western disinvestment campaigns played a role in eliminating the system, and they were supported by Mandela and the ANC.

Even individual organizations can have an impact. Mandela believes that the University of California's disinvestment of 3 billion dollars was particularly helpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_South_Africa

Not that things are that dire in Italy, but I think it's quite reasonable for Google to take public actions suspending the hosting or distribution of content in Italy. It's exactly what the court asked them to do -- stop distributing content unless they can ensure they have the permission of everyone involved.

Re: Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

#28

Post by lukev »

oscardelben wrote: post #15
davidw wrote: post #9

What's really amazing is reading the comments here (in Italian): http://vitadigitale.corriere.it/2010/02/processo_vivi_down_g... Most of them are aghast at the decision, but there is a reasonable number supporting the decision. Italy FAIL :-/

I read those comments, and I would say they are all from people who don't even know what the web is, because if you know what the web is, you can't even think that this is reasonable. Don't forget that here in italy there are a lot of people who have no idea what the internet is and how it works.

Obviously they have some idea what the web is if they're posting comments on a website ;)

Re: Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

#29

Post by btilly »

lukev wrote: post #28
oscardelben wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read those comments, and I would say they are all from people who don't even know what the web is, because if you know what the web is, you can't even think that this is reasonable. Don't forget that here in italy there are a lot of people who have no idea what the internet is and how it works.

Obviously they have some idea what the web is if they're posting comments on a website ;)

The comments at http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_wants_to_be_yo... suggest otherwise.

Re: Italian Court Convicts 3 Google Execs of Violating Privacy

#30

Post by jacquesm »

neilk wrote: post #27
jacquesm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wished you were wrong about that :( But in the case of a company duking it out with a government over the heads of the users 'out of fashion' was meant to be read as counter productive. Trade embargoes are only a step removed from a blockage, which is considered an act of war.

I don't agree that such actions are too aggressive. In the era of South African apartheid, Western disinvestment campaigns played a role in eliminating the system, and they were supported by Mandela and the ANC. Even individual organizations can have an impact. Mandela believes that the University of California's disinvestment of 3 billion dollars was particularly helpful. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_f…

If I look at Cuba I don't think much good came of it.

Such tools are best used with lots of caution.

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