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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#101

Post by kmnc »

proksoup wrote: post #86
Animats wrote: post #84

Musicians getting rich was a brief phenomenon. Historically, musicians ranked below bartenders. Making phonograph records was a process with expensive tooling, manufacturing, and distribution costs. Radio was an industry with limited airtime and a small number of stations. These factors created an industry with few songs produced in large numbers, resulting in the "rock star" industry. That's over. Through heavy prom…

Ha, you had me til the AI part. Personally I figure the musicians will have the last jobs, along with designers. Really artists generally speaking will be the most difficult AI, no?

I imagine the goal posts will for ever be moving when it comes to defining what art is, but ultimately optimizing for human emotional sentiment does not seem that difficult a problem. Art is mostly just a combination of past works optimized for the modern audience. Seems like the perfect problem for AI. We often judge a future AI in terms of how well it could replicate current things but the real question is what happens after it perfects that replication? AlphaGo alone shows that the AI is likely to discover new styles that we failed to examine before, why can't the same happen with Art?

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#102

Post by phaus »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #59
marincounty wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in college, I took my girlfriend on a summer vacation. We were both broke, so we decided to camp out along the CA coast. My car was on its last days, and the transmission didn't feel right, but we wanted that vacation. She was a great sport, as I tried to make it work. It seemed like nothing was working as I planned, except the sight of her in that bikini. I had a bunch of camping equipment, and thought, "…

Dude, you left her at the Hotel California so you could escape? I can see the conversation now in that Hotel in Santa Barbara: Clerk: Sorry. You can never leave. You: Can't you take the blond? Clerk: Only if you buy her a one piece. You: Which piece? She already has two. Clerk: A one piece, it's the style around here. You: Ok ok... Apropos of nothing, another song about the music industry sucking is Man of Constant S…

Man of Constant Sorrow is almost certainly not about the music industry. Its roots haven't been definitvely traced but many people think it was a Celtic folk song.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#103

Post by 6stringmerc »

stigi wrote: post #96
proksoup wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, you had me til the AI part. Personally I figure the musicians will have the last jobs, along with designers. Really artists generally speaking will be the most difficult AI, no?

Modern pop music follows strict patterns. I have little doubt that much of what's playing in the top 40 can be synthesized or already is :P All that you need then is a human avatar that the kids can connect to and take as their role model.

The only problem though with using a strict pattern system is that it will, I believe, more than likely miss the nuances which a brilliant songwriter can weave into a structure. The song might be 90% as good, which makes a lot of difference I think. Max Martin is an absolute genius in this regard, and his years of success reflect that. He's also a musician, though he is truly making his living as a songwriter/producer.

Here's a great break-down of "Shake It Off" from a songwriting perspective, which kind of reveals the simplicity is deceptive in some ways:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5EWn6s65o8

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#104

Post by ArkyBeagle »

dudifordMann wrote: post #14

I always thought the age of the internet, especially with modern bandwidths, could be the end of large labels for the music industry (or publishing houses for literature). I understand (to a naive degree) that the labels establish large networks, and complex licensing with public avenues like the radio or concert halls. It is also interesting that that most self published artists get the semi-derogatory term of "Indi…

No, "the Internet" just coopted the major label business model.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#105

Post by ArkyBeagle »

stigi wrote: post #96
proksoup wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha, you had me til the AI part. Personally I figure the musicians will have the last jobs, along with designers. Really artists generally speaking will be the most difficult AI, no?

Modern pop music follows strict patterns. I have little doubt that much of what's playing in the top 40 can be synthesized or already is :P All that you need then is a human avatar that the kids can connect to and take as their role model.

It does and it doesn't. The modern pop music that's most formulaic seems to be there mainly because then the managers can concentrate on promotions without worrying about what used to be known as A&R.

As an Olde Phart(tm), what DJs do looks very much to me like "a human avatar" and aggregator.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#106

Post by md224 »

Dwolb wrote: post #89
baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

Interesting... EarBits (a YC alum, I believe?) was trying to do a similar "promote indie artists" thing but built around a system of artists paying for increased exposure (I believe they wanted to be the "Google AdWords of Music").

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#107

Post by [deleted] »

Dwolb wrote: post #89
baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

[deleted]

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#108

Post by robenkleene »

at-fates-hands wrote: post #29
baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

I used to work in a record shop and found out first hand how much promotion a band needs just to sell a few CD's. I can't tell you how many insanely good bands died because either the label didn't promote them, or they just ran out of cash and quit. The only problem I see nowadays is there's virtually no vetting process. It used to be the good bands would eventually rise to the top and the shitty garage bands would b…

> not some guy programming the guitars, drums tracks and bass and then does the vocals himself?

Some highly regarded albums that use that exact process, all are five stars on Allmusic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_a_Riot_Goin%27_On

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Mind

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Hate_Machine

Another that legend has it was recording the same way, albeit under different circumstances:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siamese_Dream

Another recent one that the verdict is still out on:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currents_(Tame_Impala_album)

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#109

Post by Disruptive_Dave »

proksoup wrote: post #86
Animats wrote: post #84

Musicians getting rich was a brief phenomenon. Historically, musicians ranked below bartenders. Making phonograph records was a process with expensive tooling, manufacturing, and distribution costs. Radio was an industry with limited airtime and a small number of stations. These factors created an industry with few songs produced in large numbers, resulting in the "rock star" industry. That's over. Through heavy prom…

Ha, you had me til the AI part. Personally I figure the musicians will have the last jobs, along with designers. Really artists generally speaking will be the most difficult AI, no?

These guys: https://www.jukedeck.com/

There will come a point when one of the easiest ways to make money for a musician - sync licensing - is overtaken by computer generated tunes.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#110

Post by hyperliner »

cgh wrote: post #87
dudifordMann wrote: post #14

I always thought the age of the internet, especially with modern bandwidths, could be the end of large labels for the music industry (or publishing houses for literature). I understand (to a naive degree) that the labels establish large networks, and complex licensing with public avenues like the radio or concert halls. It is also interesting that that most self published artists get the semi-derogatory term of "Indi…

Basically, what's needed is an Image Comics but for music, where the creators maintain control of their works and are paid the lion's share of the profits. Surely there must be a label like this out there.

Why would a label want to do that? How would the label survive? If the creator's are paid the lion's share of the profits, would they also keep the lion's share of the losses?
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