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Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

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Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#121

Post by tabooacct1 »

throwawaydrugz wrote: post #90
superswordfish wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're humans and our foremost means of communication is language. Who cares if it's clumsy and imprecise? Try us, it's the best we've got. Saying it's ineffable is lazy. Unless you're talking about the centerpiece of your religion, I suppose, so I thought parent was suggesting that this person had stumbled upon the Tao. Edit: My comments are getting hammered into oblivion, forbid somebody should try to hold somet…

Saying it's ineffable is being accurate. The human language is clumsy, and I'd argue our normal consciousness and ego lack the mechanisms to convey this experience in any tangible way to a person who hasn't also been affected by it. LSD is quite possibly the most powerful thing I've ever experienced. It really is like describing color to a blind person. You're going to be frustrated if you try to understand it withou…

I think any novel experience is impossible to explain to someone who hasn't "been there."

That said—it's interesting to consider, what can we say to each other, we who have plenty of experience with LSD?

Hello. I hope your life is cool, and I bet it is!

Right now I'm on a bench in a park near Riga's old town. It's one of the first days of real nice spring.

Life is strange, earth is strange, grass is strange...

Being on a planet in the middle of space is strange...

Enjoying this field of vision with colors and textures and light and dark is strange...

For me, the LSD experience is a vantage point. Like climbing up on a secret roof and looking at everything... really, everything... thoughts, language, logic, structure, emotion, time, space, mass, energy, love, yearning, fear, history, the future, ambition, alienation, loneliness, fruits, bread, wine, smoke, oceans, rivers, stars, computers, electricity, flowers, religions, poems, books, families, stories, superstitions, science, math, soil, worms, ... yeah, I'm just listing everything right now!

And then you go to sleep, enjoy the next day in some calm and beautiful way... and then it's Monday, and you head back to your office... the apartment building staircase where people avoid each other... cars everywhere... couples who seem bored with each other... people working all day with bullshit they hate... humanity collectively very worried about money, borders, property... and all this stuff.

And then you spend your life wondering...

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#122

Post by marincounty »

lsd_throwaway wrote: post #16
lossolo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did ecstasy and i did LSD. Ecstasy is like a lie in this quote comparison. You get high in the beginning and it brings you down at the end, really awful feeling at the end. LSD is different, i experienced world differently even for couple of days after i took LSD. World seemed different. I knew what was important in life and what not, very clear. I can't describe how you feel on LSD, and people that didn't took LSD…

For a counterpoint to this - I decided to do 150 micrograms of LSD after reading a lot about it on HN, talking with many friends that had tried it or do it fairly regularly and reading as much as I could find (Sam Harris, Huxley, What the Dormouse said etc.). Nothing can really prepare you for it - the dream like state, the visuals and just the capacity of how different things can be. When looking at things I saw the…

They way you felt after taking LSD is kinda what I have been experiencing life for the last twenty years, but not the severity as you describe. It all happened after a horrid panic attack, actually a few.

I remember having a bad panic attack, seeing the walls in the bathroom undulate, my perception of things seemed different. Why do we all seem to run to the bathroom, and look in the mirror when we feel sick? I had more than a few panic attack according to my doctor, but to this day I still don't know what's wrong with me. I am better, but I think the aging process had something to do with that?

Anyways, I cried, and cried that night. I was a nervous wreck, but finally fell asleep.

I woke up, walked down the hall, thanking God it was over. When I got half way down the hall, all the nervousness, tearing, etc. came rushing back. I thought maybe it will just be another day.

Well days turns to weeks, weeks to months, months to years.

The very next day, I remember going through the yellow pages looking for a psychologist. I really belived a therapist would help. I went for months, and it didn't help in the slightest.

I did end up seeing the right Psychiatrist, and he helped, but the medications he precribed never seemed to be strong enough, and they were both addictive.

For years, the only drug that helped were two 12 o.z. beers. I would hold off until 3:00 p.m., and take my alcohol medication. I tried to keep it to two because I didn't want to turn into my father. Well, I just gave up, and drank. I had good and bad days. I pretty much gave up social drinking. I knew I needed to save my liver for the bad days.

I can honestly say whatever I had, and haven't completely rid myself of, ruined my life. I made some money, but it was just luck.

I used to be the most capabable person in school, work, or in most situations. I got to the point where I couldn't buy groceries, without shaking with fear.

I look back, and my breakdown happened after a Thanksgiving dinner. To this day, I don't know what caused me to bust a gasket. I was happy with pretty much everything in my life. I didn't have a bad childhood. I was just a twenty something trying to finish school, and have a life.

Growing up some people use to kid around with me, and say stuff like "_________you seem like the type that doesn't need drugs to have a good time?" I would laugh it off.

Anyway, maybe they saw something in me, I couldn't see? Even though I had hair half way down my back, I didn't take drugs. I drank beer, and maybe had five joints up to my breakdown, but psychadelics, and any illegial drug was definitely out. I never told anyone. I didn't want to come across as "that guy".

I recall in second grade, the teacher made us watch a movie about taking drugs. The guy was just doing normal things, took a drug, and his world was a spinning vortex. I remember thinking, why would anyone do this to themselfs? I've even carried this fear up to this day. Who would have known my brain tripped out on its own?

I know this, because of that event, it's been sheer luck I'm not homeless. Sheer luck! I could be homeless within a week? As to mental health professionals; they try. They definetly know more than the family doctor.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#123

Post by vixen99 »

kr4 wrote: post #99
devishard wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Modern science hasn't even started to appreciate the existence of consciousness let alone validating which is the better method. Wow, you sure don't know what you're talking about. David Nutt, Albert Hoffman, Jon Kabat-Zinn, Albert Einstein, Richard Feynman, Charles Darwin... every single one of these scientists has both made statements about the nature of consciousness and done research which has significantly fur…

so tell me any theory that tries to validate the existence of non-material consciousness. Giving loads of names of scientists won't help in establishing what modern science says about consciousness. The current stance is to try to define consciousness in physical terms (as a matterial substance) but with no success. As per scientists consciousness behaves to be more than the sum total of neurons in the brain. It's im…

"It's impossible so far to articulate consciousness in The law of thermodynamic, so hence the material hypothesis has never stood a chance." is a non sequitur as is "As per scientists consciousness behaves to be more than the sum total of neurons in the brain".

You cannot give an example of consciousness in the absence of matter. Perceptions are always demonstrably linked to material entities - ask a brain surgeon who can tweak your perceptions with an electrode. I think you make a categoric mistake in insisting on separating perception from the activities which are responsible for it. Might a software daemon one day in the far future report consciousness? I can see no reason why not; we have kinship with that hypothetical daemon! Searle's Chinese translation argument is related to your thoughts on this and has been (as far as I can see) comprehensively demolished though I guess there will always be a rear-guard protest.

I think the problem arises from the fuzzy definitions and assumptions used.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#124

Post by payamb »

For me LSD & Mushrooms were eye opening experience, I was born in a huge city, I grow up far away from nature, surrounded with cars, Millions of people .

I think psychedelics opened my eyes to nature, To what we were created from, We are a part of that but today we are so busy progressing in our careers, Buying bigger house and saving more money we ignore our real nature.

Earth is not just ours, Its home to million of other creatures that we ignore to see, Its what feed us and there are a lot of amazing secret living there.

I believe in third eye. and i believe psychedelics opened that third eye for me.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#125

Post by omginternets »

I'm a Ph.D student in Cognitive Science and I'm currently writing my dissertation on the topic of conscious perception.

I think this study is pretty damn interesting because the cingulate cortex (ACC & PCC) along with the thalamus are implicated in states of consciousness (i.e. wake/sleep/coma/vegetation/etc) and also in "access consciousness" (i.e.: “consciousness” in the sense of “I am conscious ​of​ such and such”). Subjects dosed with psilocybin have decreased BOLD (blood-oxygen level-dependent) signals in these regions.

BOLD signal essentially tells you how active a brain region is (the more active the region, the more energy it needs, so the more irrigation it requires), so this tells us that the thalamic and cingulate regions are relatively suppressed by psilocybin.

This is congruent with a longstanding (albeit simplistic) theory on how hallucinogens work. The idea is that hallucinogens would actually be inhibitory in their function, but they would selectively inhibit regions that are, themselves, inhibitory.

So in a hand-wavy way, you can think of the ACC as keeping imagination in check. It inhibits perceptual areas (that are also activated by imagination) so that when you imagine a tiger, you don’t actually ​_see_​ a tiger. With psilocybin & LSD, this function is suppressed so you see the tiger.

Again, I'm simplifying to the point of risking a collective beat-down from my colleagues and lab-mates, but I thought it might help illustrate what's groovy about this study.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#127

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

lsd_throwaway wrote: post #16
lossolo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did ecstasy and i did LSD. Ecstasy is like a lie in this quote comparison. You get high in the beginning and it brings you down at the end, really awful feeling at the end. LSD is different, i experienced world differently even for couple of days after i took LSD. World seemed different. I knew what was important in life and what not, very clear. I can't describe how you feel on LSD, and people that didn't took LSD…

For a counterpoint to this - I decided to do 150 micrograms of LSD after reading a lot about it on HN, talking with many friends that had tried it or do it fairly regularly and reading as much as I could find (Sam Harris, Huxley, What the Dormouse said etc.). Nothing can really prepare you for it - the dream like state, the visuals and just the capacity of how different things can be. When looking at things I saw the…

Interesting. I've had some short periods of my life like that (without drugs). It could have been some growing pains of the brain (age 20 roughly) but I also correlate these episodes with time where I shifted religious beliefs.

Could it be a normal response when adapting to changes in our fundamental axioms? I mean, it's bound to be stressful when you don't even trust your most basic assumptions of reality.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#128

Post by jonasjojo »

coldtea wrote: post #8
neurobuddha wrote: post #2

That is the most "lit up" MRI scan that I've ever seen. Obsessive compulsive people have highly activated brains, and I know musicians activate many parts of the brain - but not like this.

Feels like that too :-)

The color map in the illustration does not represent blood flow (~neural activity) but "connectivity" with the visual area. The measure used to estimate this connectivity isn't given in the article, and I wasn't able to find the associated publication. I am inclined to scepticism with this kind of measures. There exist a lot of them, and the choice of one, if not the crafting of a new one is likely to be influenced by the hypothesis of the tester.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#129

Post by meric »

wutf wrote: post #27
nefitty wrote: post #4

Pretty cool. I'd like to point out that meditation might have a similar dampening effect on the default mode network as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25904238 The question arises again, can psychedelics have lasting effects or is meditation the only way to create permanent positive change in that direction? Finally, a quote from a letter to Osho: "Many people are experimenting with the drug ecstasy. I hear…

@nefitty, you posit that the diminishment of the self is a "permanent positive change." But you didn't provide any evidence. The reductio of your argument is that it's better to just be matter, since no self is involved. Few will agree with you.

Most people enjoy being content, fulfilled, and just being themselves.

A tree is usually content to sit still most years. A rock, even more so. They sit there and are content and fulfilled. They're being themselves, without having to make a move.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#130

Post by codebolt »

lsd_throwaway wrote: post #61
martin1975 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna bet you're not addicted to any external substance and that in your case, this was purely a mind expanding experience. One could also say LSD might have unlocked what was already there in the background (i.e. "subconscious") of your mind. I would not consider this a bad trip. More like a rude awakening. Had you gone through something else in real life, major trauma of sorts, you may have experienced exactly…

I'm a fairly introspective person and I wouldn't say that it shook my world view - in the sense that I went in with a scientific world view and came out with one. I do have a better empathetic appreciation for mental illness and psychosis though (read And Then I Thought I was a Fish if you want to scare yourself). A trip makes you realize how incredible differently someone else's mind can perceive the world. The chal…

Personally, I'm not really worried about death at all. Having spent years of my life studying physics and coming to the conclusion that an eternalistic view of (space-)time is more likely correct, as seems to be implied by the theory of relativity, I know that my life here on earth won't disappear as a consequence of death, and this gives me solace.

I absolutely detest psychedelic drugs though, they nearly ruined my life twice. Anyone advocating their use doesn't know how much damage they can do to some individuals. There is nothing inherently enlightening about throwing a chemical wrench into your brains neural cogwheels.

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