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Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

rkrishnan.org

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Re: Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

#51
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought ConText was using Lua for scripting things. This suggests that: http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Mark_IV

you use ConTeXt over the LuaTeX engine. So it still requires Ruby and you can do Lua code.

Ruby is used for tooling and is not at the heart of the typesetting programs themselves.

Re: Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

#52
post #15

As a typesetting aficionado, I have tried most of the suggestions here (Prince, Troff, Lout, Docbook XML, Asciidoc, LaTeX, ConTeXt, .. except GUI typesetting tools.) TeX appears bad from a distance, mostly from hearsay, until you have to write an actual technical book of certain expected high production standards and you realize TeX gives you the best shot at doing so. There is a learning curve. It is an investment o…

Of recent attempts at dethroning LaTeX, there's also SILE, which actually reuses some LaTeX internals. For some examples of the output (hard to find, the author seems not great at marketing), see e.g.:

https://github.com/simoncozens/sile/blob/master/examples/ara...

https://github.com/simoncozens/sile/blob/master/examples/art...

https://github.com/simoncozens/sile/blob/master/examples/fra...

https://github.com/simoncozens/sile/blob/master/examples/par...

https://github.com/simoncozens/sile/blob/master/examples/jap...

https://github.com/simoncozens/sile/blob/master/examples/tes...

For a deeper dive, see the author's presentation at FOSDEM 2015 - I found it really amusing - from the starting line of: "I wrote a typesetting system - by mistake."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BIP_N9qQm4

Re: Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

#53
post #52
post #15

As a typesetting aficionado, I have tried most of the suggestions here (Prince, Troff, Lout, Docbook XML, Asciidoc, LaTeX, ConTeXt, .. except GUI typesetting tools.) TeX appears bad from a distance, mostly from hearsay, until you have to write an actual technical book of certain expected high production standards and you realize TeX gives you the best shot at doing so. There is a learning curve. It is an investment o…

Of recent attempts at dethroning LaTeX, there's also SILE, which actually reuses some LaTeX internals. For some examples of the output (hard to find, the author seems not great at marketing), see e.g.: https://github.com/simoncozens/sile/blob/master/examples/ara... https://github.com/simoncozens/sile/blob/master/examples/art... https://github.com/simoncozens/sile/blob/master/examples/fra... https://github.com/simonco…

I skimmed through their manual.. ConTeXt does all of this better, and has been doing this for longer.

Re: Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

#54

Life: The other thing is that although one starts with grand ideas of being clean and orderly, by the end the process is somewhat of a mess, with a complicated makefile to keep it running.

Yes! I loved that even Brian Kernighan can make a mess when trying to get something done :-) There is hope for us all!

Re: Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

#55
post #2

It's sad that a complete structure writing/publishing workflow is still so hard. XSL-FO is awkward and limited, and will probably remain so. TeX is not design-friendly. On the other side, InDesign is mostly visual only. Framemaker seems to be only serious tool but it's very expensive.

I was a devoted FrameMaker user until Adobe killed the Mac product. I used to have to do fairly complicated legal documents, and it was worth every penny. Plus, it was a very good word processor--you never had to leave the program to edit text. So I used it for everything I had to write. A book like this could have been handled fairly easily in FrameMaker, but sadly Adobe has decided to position in it to be only for…

Hm. I never heard of FrameMaker before, but their 2015 release is available at $29.99/month, which is hardly "positioned only for large enterprises".

Re: Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

#56
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a devoted FrameMaker user until Adobe killed the Mac product. I used to have to do fairly complicated legal documents, and it was worth every penny. Plus, it was a very good word processor--you never had to leave the program to edit text. So I used it for everything I had to write. A book like this could have been handled fairly easily in FrameMaker, but sadly Adobe has decided to position in it to be only for…

Hm. I never heard of FrameMaker before, but their 2015 release is available at $29.99/month, which is hardly "positioned only for large enterprises".

Yeah, just out of curiosity I looked at what the current deal was, and that might almost be reasonable if a) I were still going to be using it every day and b) there were still a Mac/Linux version. I wouldn't do a subscription deal it just for personal use, but that's a different issue. But 'positioning' is partly a marketing thing. Not having a Mac version clearly separates the product from Indesign for a lot of users.

Re: Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

#58

For anyone missing the lede here: the book is typeset in troff. This is astonishing because troff is 40+ years old and AFAIK hasn't gotten significant development in ~10 years. If it ain't broke don't fix it. http://www.troff.org/history.html

I wrote to Kernighan a few years ago, when "D is for Digital" came out, to ask him, in effect, if troff had been made obsolete by TeX. At the time I had begun using it, and wondered if it was worth investing my time to learn.

He answered that he still preferred to use groff, having tried alternatives. Since then I have used groff exclusively for writing documentation and papers. It never runs out of gas, and always produces attractive output. It offers a complete suite -- math, tables, pictures, graphs -- all in one package. It's fast, adaptable, and easy to learn. It has the highest ratio of text to markup of any typesetting system, including TeX and Markdown. It is the single most overlooked and under appreciated project on the planet.

Whether it's had "significant" development in the past 10 years depends on what that means. Current groff produces PDF format directly, without a Postscript intermediary. The PDF macros support links and TOC generation. I think that all took place in the last few years.

Re: Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

#59
post #15

As a typesetting aficionado, I have tried most of the suggestions here (Prince, Troff, Lout, Docbook XML, Asciidoc, LaTeX, ConTeXt, .. except GUI typesetting tools.) TeX appears bad from a distance, mostly from hearsay, until you have to write an actual technical book of certain expected high production standards and you realize TeX gives you the best shot at doing so. There is a learning curve. It is an investment o…

> Also, it is not like LaTeX et al are standing still in time.

Indeed -- XeTeX (and XeLaTeX) support Unicode and OpenType fonts natively (including system installed fonts). It's a pleasure to use.

Re: Brian Kernighan on the Typesetting of “The Go Programming Language” Book

#60
post #39
post #7

Recently I've been playing with Prince [1] and I've found it to be very powerful with excellent support for paged media. Given that HTML, CSS, Javascript, SVG is used to build the document, it's also familiar to most people already. There doesn't seem to be any open source competitor to Prince though. [1]: http://www.princexml.com/

It also means your documents are locked to a proprietary standard that isn't that widely used (compared to say MS Word) and as such, may not be totally recoverable 10,20 or 30 years from now. You want to keep that in mind when you choose which typesetting system to use - for the record, I keep a digital diary that I intend should still exist 50 years from now. I use only markdown, and the occasional entry that mentio…

>It also means your documents are locked to a proprietary standard that isn't that widely used (compared to say MS Word)

HTML and CSS?

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