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What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

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Re: What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

#21

Post by turnip1979 »

_yosefk wrote: post #13
paulmd wrote: post #10

It's meaningless to directly compare software engineer salaries with the rest of the general population because our work is a 'force multiplier'. A single software engineer can displace the labor of 10 staff - often permanently. While we're compensated more highly than 1 lower-skilled staff member it's still actually not commensurate with the amount of value we actually deliver. My (unscientific) belief is that we ac…

Erm... How many people are fed by a combine harvester driver? How many babies and mothers are saved by the staff of a modern hospital, who drastically lower child mortality? If 10 future programmers are delivered by a single nurse, should she be paid 10x what a programmer makes? (Supply and demand I get, "force multiplier" I don't get.)

I think SW engineers have to go through a lot of of specialized training that is short term in nature. Friends in the med field studied a lot to get the job but they hardly have to spend as much time as I do to keep up. I'm only in my mid 30s and a majority of the tech I use was invented after I graduated.

Re: What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

#22

Post by JoeAltmaier »

cookiecaper wrote: post #19
GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike doctors and lawyers, software engineers don't have any respect and are pretty much working class, but that's another story I see this kind of Rodney Dangerfield sentiment a lot on HN but it has never made a lick of sense to me (especially the "pretty much working class" variety). And also if software engineers want to get into the "doctors and lawyers" category we need to start doing doctory and lawyery thin…

The things you mention -- gatekeepers with teeth -- are a nightmare. They have eviscerated the medical and legal professions to the point of self-parody. They exist to keep otherwise qualified people out explicitly because they want to keep their wages high.

That's uncharitable. They exist to keep quacks away - both professions are extremely sensitive and prone to fakery.

Re: What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

#24

Post by option_greek »

While this is interesting, its conclusions should be taken with a grain of salt as the average median income of general population in India tends to be aggressively underestimated. This is because less than 5% of the populace pays/declares tax. The ones in private/government employment happens to be the ones paying tax while any one having "business" income tend to lets say "downplay" their income to get various subsidies or to just hoard money.

Re: What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

#25

Post by theoh »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #11
glogla wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineers are like doctors or lawyers - long period of study on difficult (and in places where people pay for colleges expensive) schools, long hours, but good pay. So it makes sense to compare them with doctors and lawyers. Unlike doctors and lawyers, software engineers don't have any respect and are pretty much working class, but that's another story.

> Unlike doctors and lawyers, software engineers don't have any respect and are pretty much working class, but that's another story I see this kind of Rodney Dangerfield sentiment a lot on HN but it has never made a lick of sense to me (especially the "pretty much working class" variety). And also if software engineers want to get into the "doctors and lawyers" category we need to start doing doctory and lawyery thin…

"Working class" is a stretch, but the UK category of "technical middle class" is more accurate. The crucial thing that software engineers tend to be short on, relative to their economic status, is "cultural capital". Effectively this is a way of saying that they are technically-minded rather than seeing themselves as traditional intellectuals, and I've found that to be generally true, as a CS graduate myself.

Re: What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

#26

Post by pcurve »

paulmd wrote: post #10

It's meaningless to directly compare software engineer salaries with the rest of the general population because our work is a 'force multiplier'. A single software engineer can displace the labor of 10 staff - often permanently. While we're compensated more highly than 1 lower-skilled staff member it's still actually not commensurate with the amount of value we actually deliver. My (unscientific) belief is that we ac…

I don't think anyone is going to agree with you here on this board, but there are plenty of average or substandard software engineers that also along for the ride that do not pull their weight.

I'm taking this study at its face value, and it is quite interesting.

Re: What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

#27

Post by emodendroket »

glogla wrote: post #4
TrickedOut wrote: post #2

I really detest when software engineer salaries are compared to the salaries of the general population (often to cite how our sector is "overpaid"). Usually lacking from such simple comparisons: 1. Discussion of how software engineers have to go to college for 4 to 6+ years, but the general population is weighted towards those far fewer years of schooling 2. Discussion of downtime -- the amount of time software engne…

Software engineers are like doctors or lawyers - long period of study on difficult (and in places where people pay for colleges expensive) schools, long hours, but good pay. So it makes sense to compare them with doctors and lawyers. Unlike doctors and lawyers, software engineers don't have any respect and are pretty much working class, but that's another story.

Software engineers are not "working class." Where did you get that idea?

Re: What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

#28

Post by emodendroket »

nibs wrote: post #5
glogla wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineers are like doctors or lawyers - long period of study on difficult (and in places where people pay for colleges expensive) schools, long hours, but good pay. So it makes sense to compare them with doctors and lawyers. Unlike doctors and lawyers, software engineers don't have any respect and are pretty much working class, but that's another story.

Disagree. Status is attributed based on "How useful are you or can you be to me?". A doctor and lawyer could be very useful to me personally, selfishly. A software engineer tends to be very useful to capital (institutions, etc.) but not as useful to an individual personally. Facebook engineers have a lot of status - because people use Facebook personally all the time. A great engineer who programs stop lights, manufa…

I don't think that's right. A plumber or home health aide is pretty useful too.

Re: What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

#29

Post by emodendroket »

option_greek wrote: post #24

While this is interesting, its conclusions should be taken with a grain of salt as the average median income of general population in India tends to be aggressively underestimated. This is because less than 5% of the populace pays/declares tax. The ones in private/government employment happens to be the ones paying tax while any one having "business" income tend to lets say "downplay" their income to get various subs…

They're relying on voluntarily self-reported data, often collected by essential coercion ("please enter your salary to see the averages") so I doubt it's extremely accurate in any country

Re: What Software Engineers Earn Compared to the General Population

#30

Post by turnip1979 »

dudul wrote: post #14

Am I the only who thinks that the "average income" in a country is a meaningless metric? Depending on the area (e.g. big city, desirable area, etc) average salaries and cost of living may be very different. It is easy to see in the US for example.

You are quite right. I never had an idea how immobile I would be as a tech worker. The best tech jobs are concentrated in a few, high cost of living cities. While we can work remote, the quality of the career opportunities are not the same.
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